Mayor of Stockton, CA detained by DHS at SFO, forced to give up laptop password

[enso]

@awjt

Yeah, it’s tough. (I’m out of character now…fyi) I’d be way more inclined not to even get into a pissing match and have devices I can either throw away or have one with no password and they can freely get into it… but there’s nothing of importance on it.

So when you travel, you leave your iPhone or Android phone at home ALWAYS, right? If not, then you just violated your own idea.

[enso]

Part of the difference is that I’m a security professional. I mean, my job title is “Security Program Manager, Platform Engineering” at the Mozilla Corporation. I’m not giving anyone shit without a lawyer. If I did, I wouldn’t be employable ever again either because people would know I didn’t have the sand to do my job.

[anon34812172]

@albill

The end result is eventually you get to talk to someone because they aren’t going to hold a citizen forever.

And you know this, for certain, how?

@albill

I’m a security professional

I’m not. I save my sand for other boxes.

@albill

So when you travel, you leave your iPhone or Android phone at home ALWAYS, right?

Honestly, I don’t travel out of country that much. But when I do, I don’t take anything important, or any way for anyone to link up to important stuff back home through whatever device I am carrying. It’s all disposable. I’d prefer not to dispose, but I would if I had to.

[enso]

@awjt

And you know this, for certain, how?

Because that’s how it has played out in the past, including with Wikileaks volunteers that they want a lot more than me.

What makes you think that this isn’t how it works beyond…feelings?

[enso]

@awjt

I’m not. I save my sand for other boxes.

I hope you have nothing to hide, friend, because the government will have every message you ever sent, everything you’ve ever stored, all of your contacts, etc. They’ll give you back a device that you need to throw away.

[anon34812172]

@albill

What makes you think that this isn’t how it works beyond…feelings?

That’s the same thing as what I’m asking you.

[enso]

@awjt

That’s the same thing as what I’m asking you.

and I answered. Unlike you, I actually know people that have had this done to them and I’ve heard first hand how it worked out, more than once. The answer is “They can’t hold you forever and they won’t (especially if you have lawyers knocking on the door).”

[anon34812172]

@albill

because the government will have every message you ever sent, everything you’ve ever stored, all of your contacts, etc. They’ll give you back a device that you need to throw away.

They could have it anyways… or even already, by using their letters to my providers. You can’t hide forever, and I ain’t trying.

[enso]

@awjt

They could have it anyways… or even already, by using their letters to my providers. You can’t hide forever, and I ain’t trying.

Well, then you might as well hand it over citizen. They’ll give you a good rub as you show your belly. Why fight at all then if you’re just going to give up every time?

[anon34812172]

@albill

and I answered. Unlike you, I actually know people that have had this done to them and I’ve heard first hand how it worked out, more than once. The answer is “They can’t hold you forever and they won’t (especially if you have lawyers knocking on the door).”

I’m glad you are that confident. Feel free. I, on the other hand, am not. I’d rather just comply and go on my way, if they aren’t being total jerkoffs… But even if they are being total jackasses, you’re at their mercy anyways. I’d rather do my legwork up front than worry during a border crossing.

[enso]

Jacob Appelbaum, as I recall, eventually had lawyers from the ACLU meeting him at the airport every time he got off an international flight. Eventually, he just moved to Germany.

[enso]

@awjt

if they aren’t being total jerkoffs

If they’re demanding passwords to all your devices, they’re, by definition, “being total jerkoffs.” They don’t have a right to it until a court compels you.

[LDoBe]

With that kind of attitude, I hope you enjoy being the Fed’s latest IT procurement program, seeing as you’ll keep handing over your equipment, then buying replacements. They don’t even need the lie of civil asset forfeiture. They don’t even need to get the police involved do they?

[anon34812172]

@albill

if you’re just going to give up every time?

Sure. I don’t mind “giving up” if that’s what you want to call it. My real important stuff isn’t on me anyways. Why put up a fuss for nothing? Principles? hahahahah. Here’s my password. You may have it, mister border guard. Have fun.

[enso]

For some of us, the contents of these computers isn’t “nothing.” It is our lives.

For those of you that don’t think it is, you’re mistaken, but that’s fine. You’ll find out later.

[anon34812172]

@LDoBe

I hope you enjoy being the Fed’s latest IT procurement program

I hope they like TracFones!

[enso]

So, if you were a Dutch citizen or a Polish one, and they came for the Jews, you’d hand them over? After all, who wants trouble?

Yep, I godwin’d this thread!

[anon34812172]

@albill

For some of us, the contents of these computers isn’t “nothing.” It is our lives.

For those of you that don’t think it is, you’re mistaken, but that’s fine. You’ll find out later.

Then you’re in a different category. If your corporate lawyers have thought through this process, and have you carrying laptops with sensitive stuff across borders, and have coached you on what to do… then that is super great. But your rules don’t apply to everyone. They apply to you. So there is no need to cast any aspersions or try to belittle others because the rules you play by simply do not apply to me.

@albill

Yep, I godwin’d this thread!

Yes, you did! I’m not answering that. I love all my jewish friends and I’d protect them. But we are talking about our porn collection on our laptops. It’s different.

[enso]

I’m not handing over my phone either.

That pretty much applies to everyone. They want my phone? Come back with a fucking warrant.

[enso]

@awjt

Yes, you did! I’m not answering that. I love all my jewish friends and I’d protect them. But we are talking about our porn collection on our laptops. It’s different.

Uh huh. Up until they “find” child porn on it and send you to prison. Sure.