Yes. I find it sad that in a lot of ways for too many people that war is not over.
1 Like
::blink blink::
Because, if we had been able to stop him from getting a gun, he would have been able to stab all those 9 people? Or he would have been dedicated enough to get a PhD and make Sarin gas all on his own?
Or itâs just that weâre not concentrating enough on policing racist thoughts, that once we eliminate racism and misogyny and transphobia and a tolerance for unethical games journalism that violent impulses will just drift away on the breeze of yesterdayâs bad dream?
Yeah, he did what he did because heâs a racist. But if he was a racist with a knife, or a fork, or a nail-studded baseball bat he wouldnât have been able to kill 9 people in such a short period of time.
4 Likes
The treason part doesnât bother me. The slavery part does. The southern elites had no commitment to state or local autonomy, they only went to war for slavery and their own power.
6 Likes
A lot of people have, and do, elsewhere. Why not discuss that, here?
1 Like
Yes. Sometimes.
Sometimes blaming âlone nutsâ is a way of avoiding acknowledgement and discussion of gun controlâŠ[looks at watch]âŠ
Ah, right on time.
3 Likes
I may be being pedantic (if someone uses the word pedantic, they are >:D), but I was just answering your direct question. Thatâs all.
Yes white power groups are at the heart of this, but I canât help thinking that all the people who do these things are somehow not all there otherwise they would not do that kind of thing even if part of a radical movement.
Cause when I read how in ww2 for the German army had to basically keep execution squads blotto drunk and on the duty for a very short time even when they were shooting the hated other tells me most of us just canât do that kind of thing.
Indeed, Iâm certainly not saying that white supremacy and not being all there are mutually exclusive.
Why not discuss that, THERE?
Totally got that. Just seems like a lot of lather for one example.
And you alone offered one. Other folks just said âlots of peopleâ⊠which I have to say, isnât accurat. Itâs been just one or two, and then a whole lotta strawmen filling out those ranks.
Not straw men put up by you, just to be clear. 
I try. I canât always handle the slurs, victim-blaming, etc. on news sites though.
3 Likes
The only straw men I put up are the ones in the backyard on Beltane that I light on fire and prance around with elk horns while nakâŠ
Iâve said too much.
5 Likes
Also on topic, (Rick) Perry said that he wasnât sure if the shooting was an act of terror, but that it was indeed a âcrime of hate.â
He also suggested that confessed shooter, 21-year-old Dylann Roof, may have been âmedicated.â One of Perryâs platforms is the issue of opioids he alleges are being handed out too easily to ex-military members.
(âŻÂ°âĄÂ°ïŒâŻïž” â»ââ»
2 Likes
4 Likes
Your parties sound like a good time.
2 Likes
The use of âmental illnessâ in responses to spree killings (aside from being selective, as noted) seems unbelievably lazy.
Itâs pretty much a âWow, he just went off and shot all those people, thatâs crazy. He must be crazy.â Thatâs the sort of âdiagnosisâ that your stereotypical medieval exorcist would have been unimpressed by. Sure, his theory that demonic possession was what ailed you was nonsense; but he would probably actually have some interest in âwhich demon, or type?â which is more diagnostic granularity than âcrazyâ is.
There certainly are instances of mental illness leading to otherwise-inexplicable violence(mostly the ârelatively severe break with reality due to psychosis or paranoia leads to violence that seems reasonable due to the patientâs pathologically inaccurate available inforrmation; but purposeless otherwiseâ); but thatâs vastly more precise, explanatory, and actually-related-in-some-way-to-mental-illness than the âWell, thatâs crazy; next?â position, which is at best an assertion of the impossibility of discerning an actorâs motivations and at worst a direct refusal to acknowledge them, even when he goes to the trouble of explaining them in an elaborate manifesto ahead of time.
4 Likes
Iâve been hesitant to respond to this for several reasons.
Firstly, I arrived after that thread got closed, and Iâd prefer not to press-my-luck by re-creating that discussion, because that could close down this thread. Secondly, I didnât want to make this about any one poster or any one phrase. I too sometimes let a âcrazyâ or âderangedâ or âunhingedâ slip from my tongue.
In general, working to de-stigmatize mental illness and reduce abelist language are evergreen issues that I think help all of us be more articulate, thoughtful, and inclusive in our speech. So, I left out quoting people in order to focus on the casual ways we let euphamisms for mental illness stand-in for actions we donât understand and for people we fear.
Still, Sir Platanoides, youâve several times now opined that you only saw one instance where someone invoked mental illness. By my reading, I saw many, by many posters. Again, Iâm not desiring point out any of these people, because in general I think most of these were casual, off-hand remarks. But here goes, copy-pasta:
"not getting the psychiatric care they should've received"
"I'd be surprised if the rate of psychosis among suicide bombers wasn't much higher than in the general population."
"perhaps mental illness makes some more prone to adopting fringe ideologies"
"This guy may be a lone wolf nutcase"
"I hold out that it could have easily already been mentally unstable"
"the lone nut usually just has it all in his head"
"I'd contend that just about anyone who goes on a random shooting rampage, especially as a loner, is mentally ill."
"He's a murderer, and probably crazy, too, it seems to me."
"certainly I see that the crime and hate and murder are symptomatic of mental illness"
"Mental health issues are race-blind, anybody can get one."
"That does not make the killer any less crazy in head."
"He could also be mentally ill."
"perhaps extreme racism is a type of mental illness"
"They seem mostly harmless but like any group some members are wackadoo."
"And, well yes, killing bunch of people because of the colour of their skin (or their religion, or their gender, etc...) is a crazy thing to do in that it is not rational, not actually justifiable according to rational thought -- and in that sense someone who does it could be said to be "crazy.â"
The casual manner in which euphemisms for mental illness are thrown about only create more stigma. Speculating about Roofâs mental wellness adds little to the understanding of this case, or the broader phenomena of mass shootings. Itâs not a matter of tone-policing, itâs a matter of accuracy.
A 2001 study looked specifically at 34 adolescent mass murderers, all male. 70 percent were described as a loner. 61.5 percent had problems with substance abuse. 48 percent had preoccupations with weapons. 43.5 percent had been victims of bullying. Only 23 percent had a documented psychiatric history of any kindâwhich means 3 out of 4 did not.
Even if we had a perfect mental health care system, that is not going to solve our gun violence problem. If we were able to magically cure schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and major depression, that would be wonderful, but overall violence would go down by only about 4 percent.
Even in this thread, we use the phrase âpeople who do these things are somehow not all thereâ to communicate the belief that what failed in this case was something in Roofâs brain. Maybe is wrong with his brain, maybe not, I donât think we know that yet.
But whatâs clear to me is that he had a failing of the heart. He was full of hatred, and despicably acted upon it. And there was a failing of his community - friends and family that knew of his threats, of his plans, and didnât intervene. Did they not love him enough? Did they also hate who he hated?
We have plenty of words for the failings we know: cruel, inhuman, despicable, horrific, incomprehensible, reprehensible, beyond belief, heartless, cold-blooded. They work just fine, or better, in communicating just how impossible it is for most of us to understand what Roof did, and why.
2 Likes
Iâm not sure where this should go since there are several on this topic but it is related.
It struck me as I read his âmanifestoâ that he says: âWe have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet.â
While obviously this awful thing still happened, it seems a positive comment that he couldnât find any IRL racists to join him.
1 Like
