Again, how are gender roles not a key aspect of this discussion? What role women should have in society is the core of this discussion and the roles women had was defined by gender
Well, except that in many cases, women just added working a full time job on top of their gendered obligations at home.
Sure… based in part on a rejection of the traditional gender roles women had been confined to. Straight up Betty Friedan territory here… the problem with no name of the 1950s was a straight up problem with gender roles.
So maybe you’re initial comment wasn’t clear on that point. [quote=“anotherone, post:36, topic:80272”]
I’m guessing you will find people react better to being told “Hey, we noticed that. Still a long way to go but keep it up.” But then again, expressing anger and making people think you may live in hate might be a better path.
[/quote]
What do you mean here? Are you talking about me or are you talking about men in the 1970s? What point are you trying to make here, because, again, I am not following.
The egalitarian believes that people deserve to be treated equally, the malicious person dictates that people “are equal”, because so long as others do not believe that a marginalized person should be treated equally and encode this into society and law, they are not and can not be equal.
I’m just trying to get a clear point - it seems to be that men reacted to the sexual revolution by trying to make it about them, then they got over it and things are somewhat better, but really they were better in the era of peace and love, because of the sexual revolution. And the pill made women feel empowered for the first time and gender had nothing to do with the feminist movement of the 1970s, which was about equality, not a discussion on gender roles?
And either men in the 1970s were hateful, or I am…
@Mindysan33 - you’re obviously too angry and living in hate to discuss this rationally. You are not a man over 50, you could not know about women’s liberation! Just shhhh, listen, a man is talking to you!
So maybe we just need a lot of posters around that say, “Hey, male person, thanks for not being a sexist jerk today!”? What’s the chance that this study will be used to “seek more [social progression]”?
What’s the GIF for “Thank you for your condescension”?
I mean, I seriously want to understand the argument being made, because I’m not sure I get it. [quote=“grimloki, post:47, topic:80272”]
Go watch Saturday night fever and come back to the discussion.
[/quote]
Is that the core of the argument being made? I’m reading Stayin’ Alive, which is a book about this very era (not a book on gender, though, but labor, culture, and politics).
I seriously want to understand and not misstate what they are saying. I hate when people do that with what I’m saying.
Who said it disappeared and who is having false nostalgia? I was saying it was a bad thing…
Do you have a point besides the pointy thing you keep poking me with?
[quote=“Missy_Pants, post:41, topic:80272”]@wrecksdart - you know you can use me or @Mindysan33 or @milliefink interchangeably. And yeah, I used to think this younger generation would be better too… at a lot of things, gender politics and technology especially, and then I started working in post-secondary education and oh god we are so doomed.[/quote]College is that stage in life where you think you are right and everyone else knows you are not. Still better than high school in my book, and two steps above middle school - but I imagine the youth you are around the most are the ones you hate the most.
I don’t hate them at all! I feel for them! OMG they’re so over wrought all the time! I just want to hug them and calm them down! (no hugging!) It is nice now that my guys are entering 4th year, and thats a magical time, its so nice to watch, all the pieces start to slot into place and they “get it”, but oh my those three years getting here are HARD! And I do think its much harder now than it was 20 years ago.
OK, I’ll try again. Wow it sure does seem like you want to argue.
Article says men are just as bad now as then.
Me > Remembers sexual revolution and machismo fallout. men acted horribly. AIDS came and ended that era. Points out that in the 70’s men were far more aggressive about misogyny but men of this era are trying harder than I’ve seen them try in my life to not be like that. Ergo, men today are not as bad as their fathers IMO despite article.
Because this isn’t an article about women. it is an article about men and their behavior… kinda simple but you keep pushing that if it helps.
I don’t entirely disagree, but this gets back to the matter of taking responsibility for one’s categories. Even “marginalized person” and “exploiter” are themselves categories one constructs to frame these issues.
Also, since belief is subjective, I think it has little place in social interactions. I prefer for social frameworks to be based upon evidence, and since there are only self-serving biases rather than evidence as bases for social inequality, this undoes it at its root, rather than argue any specific category. It doesn’t ultimately matter what rationalization a person or group choose to persuade others that some are of more or less value than others. It is still a self-serving rationalization, and will probably shift and camouflage itself as they encounter resistance. But egoism and identity - a failure of symbolic categories - will still be at the cause. A rational person can know with certainty that there is no reason why one’s own “self” should matter more or less than any other person. Societies do not reach this level of maturity by arguing over which group seems more special.
And yeah, I used to think this younger generation would be better too… at a lot of things, gender politics and technology especially, and then I started working in post-secondary education and oh god we are so doomed.[/quote]College is that stage in life where you think you are right and everyone else knows you are not. Still better than high school in my book, and two steps above middle school - but I imagine the youth you are around the most are the ones you hate the most.