It definitely was. Lee popularised more than anyone until that time that one benefits from learning diverse traditions and respecting them - but ultimately not being beholden to tradition for its own sake. His discipline of Jeet Kune Do was predicated upon a “use whatever works” methodology. This is what made popular acceptance of MMA possible, overcoming some of the factionalism of various older schools.
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We have practiced Kendo for many years, but it is an art focused on speed and efficiency rather than choreography. Of course there are weapons involved.
And armor!
That video is hardly “fair” in that Tai Chi is an old system which has its origins in martial arts, but is nowadays typically taught and practiced as a form of exercise/meditation, rather than a school of unarmed combat. Whereas MMA is fresh and aggressive and is all about doing whatever you can to thrash an opponent. So it’s about as shocking as a boxer beating up a yoga instructor.
Where things can get stale with deeply established systems is that they are taught in terms of various drills and forms. Those are eventually used as rudiments for extended improvisation, like in jazz. Different systems have their own distinct building blocks of situations and technique. So being exposed to a different system upsets what one has learned in a good way. Part of why mixing styles has been historically frowned upon is that many students lack the humility to start from square one as a rank beginner in another system. They like recognition of their prior achievements and risk alienating their new teacher with constant protests. “But that’s not really the best way, I am a black belt in X and we did it like this.” Maybe you did, and maybe it was. You can mix and match and compare, but on your own time - first you need to listen and practice.
My school balances tradition and mixed tactics fairly well. We do the established forms and drills. But are regularly reminded that in real life, our opponents might well have different training. That people fight dirty on the street. We are trying to be safe as to not injure each other, so we can continue to practice and learn. While a real adversary might aim to injure, cripple, or kill. Outside of military and police, martial artists are often trained to dial it back and focus upon more abstract technique, and prevent being so aggressive as to actually injure others.
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Exactly. This “Tai Chi Master” is not doing anything even remotely resembling the art form, and consequently, based on this video, he shouldn’t be considered a “master” (whatever that means). Anyone familiar with the traditional art (esp. Chen style) should be able to spot this in the vid for several reasons, most notably b/c the dude has no footwork whatsoever. Any fighter that doesn’t have decent footwork has no chance (outside of luck) in any situation: competition, self-defense, or even play wrestling for that matter.
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Thank you for saying this. BJJ reminds me of a chess game sometimes. And let’s not forget that MMA is sometimes described as “jits with hits.”
You are perhaps misunderstanding me. When you say “street fights” you’re talking about variations of sexual dominance displays, right? Where nobody is intended to actually die? Those are tournaments; there are rules. BJJ is a great set of techniques and exercises for performing in that arena.
No, I’m talking about actual no rule fights. Bjj is built for that. Some people seem to think that since it does well in tournaments or mma or whatever that it’s designed for that, but that’s a misconception. It’s built to handle situations with no rules or limitations, including defending against someone with a knife (hint: run!, but we at least learn the best way to handle the situation if that’s not possible).
That’s of course not to say that most people train it for that reason. I personally train in it because it’s tons of fun, is a great workout both mentally and physically, is basically physical chess, and has a loooong satisfying learning curve that never ends. Like most adults I don’t get into fights or plan to!
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I know of at least one teacher who refuses to give a black-belt to anyone with less than four years practice, and it’s by no means automatic, you still have to pass the tests with flying colors. (And he’s being nice with the four year limit, his instructor required 20!)
Good point. Practice would be much more dangerous without kendogu. But the bamboo swords are designed to make a lot of noise while doing minimal damage.
I was thinking of it in terms of using the skills in actual combat. Then, you would be using an actual sword, and probably not have an opportunity to put armor on.
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I think at least some significant portion of the reason you see less matches ending in submissions now can be attributed to the rules regarding stand-ups and round lengths. I’m not saying it accounts for all of the change, but matches in the earlier days that let guys lay on the ground for 20 minutes until the submission guy got a technique on… were a thing. I remember early wrestlers that could totally control position and you’d get boring matches because they didn’t necessarily have submissions in those days. This is all like… 15-20 years ago though, though I’m sure it still pops up from time to time in smaller venues/promotions.
Have you tried using it in any? I’ve had my eyeball laying on my cheek, and been held by my throat over a 4 or 5 story drop, so I’m not exactly unfamiliar with no rules fighting.
In my limited experience, grappling is the last thing you do before you lose. Real life and death fights rarely involve monomachy, which is another good reason to avoid them.
[quote=“wrybread, post:87, topic:100840”]
I personally train in it because it’s tons of fun, is a great workout both mentally and physically[/quote]
Then you’re doing it right!
I have never understood why Gracie fighters, more than any others, so strongly resist the idea that their art is optimized for formal combat. It’s not an insult.
I just use three-weapon masks with shinai. You can get bruised, but not really maimed like you can with schlagers or bokken. Shinai are awesome, I love them!
My Tai Chi / Qi Gong teacher said the fights you’re most likely to get into are with kids (usually your own), because kids sometimes just do that, so you want to be able to deflect them and keep them from damaging you while not actually hurting them.
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Our house sort of reminds me of Clouseau’s apartment. There are swords and practice weapons all over the place. We are lucky to have several good sets of bogu. My son especially has put a lot of time and effort into studying both Kendo and Iado, but my daughter studied Kendo as well.
I do think that the skills in Kendo would absolutely help you in real conflict, as long as you live the sort of life where you could actually put your hands on a sword in such a situation.
My house is similar; two each of five or six different kinds of practice swords and a plethora of sticks…
Iaido is a beautiful art, but it’s hard to find good teachers.
Somebody earlier mentioned footwork. I’ve played in a fair number of different martial sports, and practiced a couple of martial arts, and in every one of them the footwork was always pretty universally useful.
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Absolutely. The videos that are the subject of this article don’t really show martial artists who have gained strength and agility through studying martial arts but can translate those into actual combat skills, unless it is the MMA people. Those who fetishize the magic control of Qi or whatever are more likely to get knocked down and have their lunch money taken.
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The fiction that MMA is “no rules” fighting does much to support this style of fighting. MMA has tons of rules, which any casual fan can probably describe to you. Aside from the no-squishy-bits rules about eyes and balls, there’s the rather important constraint of one-on-one fighting, a scenario which happens in sport, not generally not anywhere else. The rest of the rules are mostly about preventing stomping attacks and allowing grounded fighters space to stand up. They are protecting the ground game as a viable technique.
BJJ as pioneered by the Gracies is an amazing invention, and it’s fun as hell to watch and to play. But don’t try to pull guard and take a 2-on-1 fight to the ground. It’s not going to go your way.
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Notable though were all the people standing around watching while this guy takes a solid minute and a half to set up his triangle. Nice of them not to kick him in the face when the fight started going his way.
[quote=“roomwithaview, post:89, topic:100840”]
I know of at least one teacher who refuses to give a black-belt to anyone with less than four years practice, and it’s by no means automatic, you still have to pass the tests with flying colors. (And he’s being nice with the four year limit, his instructor required 20!)
[/quote]Funny story - It’s been more than 20 years since I first started Silat, and my old Guru, to the day she died, refused to call me Guru even when I’d risen to a roughly equivalent level of skill - because I’d never trained a student long-term, I’d only ever helped out others.
[quote=“forceblink, post:66, topic:100840”]
Typically, though, we don’t have a lot of buttheads walking through the doors. People are pretty humble on entry, because they look around and see a wash of color on the mat and know they better behave.
[/quote]Sadly not the case for other schools - Ever since BJJ and MMA became a big thing, I’ve noticed a definite uptick in three things: People who hear silat and don’t go “What’s that? Is that from a movie?”, people who shit-talk Silat in favor of BJJ and MMA, and people who have a whole lot of excuses for when they lose a training bout hard and fast. I’m not going to say that Silat is a sure-fire winner, or inherently better, and what have you - but experience and cunning does tend somewhat to win against youth and cockiness.
