Motion picture industry continues to stagger under piracy with mere record-breaking income

There was a segment on the radio a couple of days ago about how theater attendance is down, but revenue is up. The presenters seemed a little confused as to how this could be, and I was thinking “That’s $15 tickets for you, duh!”

I almost never go to the movies anymore, it’s just too expensive. Plus, my local theater switched to assigned seats, which pisses me off because the scalpers snag all of the good seats and I end up in the first row, far left side and the middle of the theater is half empty. If I wanted to deal with scalpers and/or getting ripped off by Ticketmaster I would go to a live event. Oh, but I don’t because their ticketing pisses me off too much.

5 Likes

What are we like, all 10? What the fuck is up with that? Is it one of the chains? I’ve never heard of this before.

1 Like

Note the “amenities” box on the right.

1 Like

You’ve actually seen scalping? That’s interesting.

I’m generally in favor of assigned seats at theaters, given that it allows me to buy tickets days in advance and then show up just in time for the show. It’s far better suited to arranging to meet up with busy friends. I’d probably just say fuck it and go some other time or not at all if all the good seats were taken, rather than look on Craigslist for scalped movie tickets or something.

1 Like

I took my son to the Lego movie a few weeks ago. I didn’t know they had switched and arrived 10 minutes before the movie was scheduled to start. The lady at the counter (no way in hell I’m giving Ticketbastard money for simple movie tickets) said that it was almost sold out, but there were 2 seats left. I said that was fine, it was just me and my son. But then she explained that the two seats left were first row, #1 and #2. Ugh. My son was really excited to see the movie and since he’s small he doesn’t mind the front row so we took it. Once in there, the theater never filled above 2/3 full, and was closer to 1/2. Someone had bought up a lot of tickets but had not made it out. Most of the people were sitting around the edges of the theater, with the center noticeably less filled.

I don’t know for sure, but my suspicion was that a scalper overestimated the value of a matinee showing of a three week old movie and couldn’t move his product.

3 Likes

Not sure what that has to do with any form of liberalism. No shortage of conservatives who also feel that anything that stands in the way of maximum profit is to be done away with. Example: a common conservative stance on environmental regulations is that they harm a company’s ability to make insane profits and forces them to make do with only modest profits, and therefore should be removed.

1 Like

They used to show short films before and the trailers after (hence the name “trailer”) Now the only ones who put shorts in front of the film are Pixar.

I’m still waiting for the penny to drop.
The sound of that penny is likely to attract the attention of the greedy music-industry executives who will experience the synchronicity of suddenly realising that all the money they have been throwing at the lawyers has gotten them exactly zilch in return.

…except for the rapidly fading feeling of morally fuelled revenge exacted on those who would dare commit the crime that seemed to make obvious sense when the lawyers described it to them but around which they can no longer quite wrap their hubris.

Record execs:

You could be keeping all that money!

1 Like

Well, let’s be clear - in this case, the income does not represent rising profits. The movie industry is still several billion dollars in the hole with these sorts of box office revenues.

1 Like

There isn’t an “entertainment business,” though. The music industry is not the film industry is not the video game industry (and none of those are television). Recorded music existed to generate profits for the record companies, not for musicians, most of which, historically, made fuck-all off of their own recordings unless they were super-stars (and not even then, necessarily). Musicians, are, in a sense, not even part of the music industry - they’re a resource to be exploited. The movie industry doesn’t work that way - it has its own, unique dysfunctions. Even if the Iron Maiden story were true, it would have no relevance to the film industry - or anything else.

1 Like

Not in the sense that it’s an entire, organised, thought-through enterprise, you’re right. I’m using the term to refer to the segment of economic activity that draws cash out of people so that they can pass the time in some entertained manner.

There is, though, commonality between those businesses. A video game producer is not unlikely to hire a TV scriptwriter to assist on scripting a game - way before they hire a construction worker with no history of writing anything.

If the Iron Maiden story were true, yes it would have relevance. Take another band - Vintage Trouble. They’ve been going for around three or four years - and succeeding like crazy. But they’re doing it by working hard, touring all the time, being outstandingly different, luckily having experienced management, and they’re not young people.

Vintage Trouble kind of knew what a portion of the music audience wanted, and they worked to give it to them. They’re still working, and organically, they’re growing in fame. They control much more of what’s going on - so they’re defining one way to succeed in the current era, rather than relying on memories of coke-filled hedonism to spur them on to repeat the errors of a past that isn’t relevant today.

And trust me - every Vintage Trouble fan recognises that live, they can’t be beat. They’re a phenomenon live, their recordings kind of do justice, but their is no media that can convey what their concerts are like. They know this, and sell tons of merch at the live venues. They walk out off stage and kiss and hug their fans. Do they care about piracy? Probably very little, given that their message is “live is way better”.

My understanding is that’s not just common, but that the opposite, movies that end theatrical runs in the black, are actually relatively uncommon - they tend to be really cheap movies that rode word of mouth to the top of the box office charts and some super-blockbusters that stay in theaters for a long time. Even crowd-pleasing, mainstream movies with big stars are lucky to break even in theaters.
I haven’t been out to a movie in years. I’m not quite sure why ticket prices have increased so much. Theater owners make almost half their profit on concessions, and I would imagine a drop in ticket prices would cause a disproportionate increase in concession revenue, so it’s in their interest to get more people who have paid less to get in. I suppose it’s largely a response by movie distributors to shore up box office revenue from declining audiences, in which case it’s worked.

1 Like

Is that by Hollywood accounting, where movies like Return of the Jedi, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, The Fellowship of the Ring, and Forrest Gump LOST money?

Or is that by real-world accounting?

4 Likes

I think the broader implied point here is that data trends and modes of purchasing have to adapt. And for those companies bold enough to dig in, there can be new streams of revenue. The old industries - music, film, horse & buggy, et al. - want to continue selling packaged goods, ignore new modes of delivery and wield the legal cudgels to shut everything that strays from that line.

As a result we get those shitty, business-sponsored, DMCA-type laws that treat anything more complicated than a hammer as a lockbox of precious copyrights. Then those same companies turn around and make hundreds of millions in revenue off streaming and digital service agreements.

1 Like

I mean that economically the various industries don’t share much because how they’re organized, how they make products, how they make money are so different. If the Iron Maiden story were true, it would have relevance for other bands, certainly, but none at all for the movie or game industries which would have no way to similarly capitalize on that dynamic. (And working in the game industry, it would be unlikely to hire a TV scriptwriter to assist on doing writing for a game. It sometimes happens, and usually the film/television writers end up quite frustrated because the jobs and expectations are so very different. What might seem like similar or even identical jobs to outsiders are often quite different in part because the industries are structured so differently.)

Fair dos. I know a bunch o’ people in TV, some of whom have worked on games.

Actually, here’s a question - working in the games industry, do you think you guys and girls feel more or less sensitive to piracy than music or visual?

Oh, absolutely businesses need to adapt to survive, and using legal bludgeons is always the wrong way to go about it. But criticizing from a position of ignorance doesn’t help: we don’t want to get trapped in myths about the industry, not understanding where they actually make their money, confusing revenue with profit (especially in a case like this where there isn’t even any profit), etc. Often there are good reasons why things get done certain ways that aren’t obvious to outsiders, and alternatives are more limited than they appear. And ultimately we’re not talking about buggy whips, we’re talking about products that people still want, even if they may not want to pay for it in that particular form with those particular restrictions.
I work in the game industry, and it sticks in my craw when developers get called greedy, lazy, dismissed with stories of how we’re swimming in cash-filled gold swimming pools, etc. based on gross misunderstandings of how things work, when in reality we’re making less than equivalent jobs in any other industry and a “hit” game may have barely done more than broken even. (Usually the misunderstanding starts by confusing retail sales with company revenue, which is a small fraction of that, then confuses revenue with profit.) So I see people justify copying games because they’ve decided the developer “doesn’t need the money.”

1 Like

It’s a very, very different dynamic. There was free copying going on from the very beginnings of the game industry - PC games were being copied and going up on BBSes back in the days before the web even existed, and there was only the packaged good, no alternate revenue stream, no live experience to sell like film and music. All sorts of experiments with DRM were therefore also going on from the beginning (and mostly failing immediately). So there weren’t any sudden technological developments that hit sales the same way home taping was supposed to, or file sharing did for music or movies. Those issues were always there from the start with PC games, and no one can (convincingly) say, “These would be our sales if only ‘piracy’ didn’t exist!” Estimates of paying to non-paying players, where hard numbers were available, sometimes indicated that 90-sometime percent of the audience wasn’t paying, but since copying has always been part of the culture, how many “lost sales” they represented is impossible to say. To some degree the industry accepts it as normal (and developers inevitably were copying lots of games when they were younger and developing their interest). The popularity of the internet actually helped increase sales in some ways, as it allows the industry to design features into games that defy copying or reward sales - additional online play (via our servers) that add value to packaged games, games as services (everything from constant content updates, tying things into community features via Steam, running the game as online-only, etc.), downloadable content and micro-transactions, etc.
Also there’s console games, which being on closed systems, haven’t had the same copying issues (instead used games are the issue, there), so there have been these other platforms with greater sales potentials. Which is just as well, as production costs have increased exponentially for AAA games thanks to Moore’s Law, consumer expectations and the block-buster nature of sales, to Hollywood film levels. At the same time, audience sizes haven’t kept up, and retail prices have gone down in real-money terms, not having changed for 20+ years. So it’s almost impossible to release a AAA game without primarily targeting consoles (subscription-based games being the exception). That portion of the industry continues to be very hit-driven, with only the best-selling games making profits (though those profits continue to shrink with rising production costs), with a smaller and smaller number of games (and developers) reaping the rewards. So the industry has its own, quite serious dysfunctions unrelated to illegal copying.
Sales dynamics have always been different, too. In the earlier days, because of rapid technological obsolescence and limited shelf space, games had a very limited time time to make their money back - if your game wasn’t making money after a couple weeks, it likely never would. Back then a single hit would fund a number of losses, and that’s no longer true for larger games, but now there’s a longer tail for game sales that didn’t used to exist. Downloads and other online payments make up most of PC game revenue now (mostly tied into services like Steam), and are expected to be a bigger and bigger part of console revenue. Free-to-play games are the ultimate response to copying - give the game away entirely and charge for extras. It requires a very specific sort of game and a massive audience, but profits can wildly outstrip those of some of the blockbuster AAA games.
So the industry has always been in flux, with no real sense of stability, changing expectations, etc. but also constantly changing revenue streams, and being able to build revenue models around freely giving away the product, etc. in ways that Hollywood and the music industry can only dream about, despite not having their options for revenue from live experiences and broadcasts.

3 Likes

No amount of money is enough in a capitalist society.

1 Like