That’s good that you found what works for you. I am talking about population health, not that chiro across the board is just as effective in each patient. It’s not, for reasons you well know. I will add this, though: going to chiro once a month in the midst of a major back event is not unreasonable. Physical therapy regimens are usually 1+ times per week.
I agree with that, but to me it’s not a conversation ender. It seems that you feel that this is the only important point to make about medicine, and that any other observations are just efforts to distract from or minimize this one decisive fact. This is a common problem with rational sceptics, where a particular irrational inconsistency in something acts as a mind trap. And while the trap is always a valid criticism, it ultimately prevents deeper investigation and more nuanced consideration.
Thread over in one post. Props.
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I’m not going to investigate homeopathy deeply or with more nuance. I’m not going to investigate it at all. Just like I’m not going to investigate the humors, cupping, chelation, leeching or bloodletting. They have been investigated already, and exposed, so there is nothing left to investigate.
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Y’all are aware that the placebo effect is stronger in America than elsewhere right?
Do you think that might have something to do with the crazy proliferation of medical adverts in country? Perhaps the slightly stronger culture of religious authority?
Whatever it is, it appears that some cultural element of belief impacts upon the efficacy of placebos.
Still awaiting evidence of the place for placebos in treatment of severed body parts, however.
I’m also fascinated with the foreknowledge effect of placebos. They still work, even when you know that the pill is a placebo. Even if you do not believe in them.
I’ll pray for y’all.
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Yes, they can. It’s MAGIC! Well, the magic of the subconscious, which is really only a construct for our lack of understanding of the brain’s function.
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Experts are giving more credence to talk therapy, of late. And it seems that CBT is starting to fall. I never thought of it as a “horse race” until I just typed those two sentences, but if you look at it through media including medical pubs, it IS a goddamn horse race, which is stupid.
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Radiolab has a good episode on placebo.
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LOL – I misread the second tweet as:
Superstitions can be rational if 1) harmless, 2) lower your anxiety, 3) prevent you from listening to forecasts by economists & Black Swan “experts”
and thought, “Perfect – he’s given me permission to ignore him.”
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I feel like the effect probably is centred around stress. Stress negatively impacts upon the body’s ability to perform up to its full potential.
‘Results’ are achieved through interaction with the components of ourselves that usually remain subconscious. Probably the most accepted by Western science would be along the lines of Jung’s Active Imagination as a method for consciously interacting with archetypal forms of subconscious drives and motivations. I think that the knowledge of that which normally remains opaque to us can have a settling effect, but as even Jung opined, sheer knowledge of the problem is not good enough. We need to be able to manipulate and change these loci of neuroses in order to improve our mental health.
And the de-stressing effect of this change can allow our (mostly) unconscious drives and processes to perform without neurotic and stressful interruption.
However, I think within this realm, of de-stressing oneself, psychedelics and meditation (including yoga) are the superior method. Consciously giving oneself over to the already extant subconscious processes is a more direct route to access.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the imagery and method of magick, it’s very interesting and enthralling but as for efficacy, it still involves one using neuroses to interact with neuroses… trial by fire I guess, right for some but perhaps ultimately, not for all.
It’s not a choice between either totally embracing an idea or refusing to think about it. You can consider something deeply without accepting its premise. I mean, aren’t you even a little bit curious about how and why placebos work? To me it’s weird and fascinating, and full of useful information about the weaknesses of the established medical system. And I think the failures of mainstream medicine are a lot more useful to learn about than the usually failrly obvious weaknesses of fringe medicine, simply because of scale.
Placebos, yes. Homeopathy, no. So, yeah, no, ya know?
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Leeching is still a valuable procedure in some surgical settings.
http://sciencenetlinks.com/science-news/science-updates/modern-leeching/?wb48617274=6595F728
Of course, if someone wanted to introduce leeching today, it would require fifteen years of peer reviewed studies first, and every leech bred according to FDA standards would cost upwards of $10K.
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I know of no American insurance company that covers homeopathic remedies.
What we should do is to have a couple of placebos produced by each of the major pharma companies, so that doctors could prescribe them to their patients (a) without fear of harm and (b) knowing that the patient’s health will still be monitored.
“Mr. Doctorow, I’m going to put you on a medium-strength dose of Bupkisone. It has no side effects that I’m aware of, and you should be able to tolerate it with no problems. Come back in three weeks and we’ll see how you’re doing.”
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Oh that’s good. 
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My mom and sister go to that same chiro once a month, and have been doing so consistently for well over a decade. Actually, now that I think about it, my mom must have been going for at least 2 decades, now. She (the chriopractor in question) doesn’t seem particularly interested in fixing the problem, but maybe it’s just her. I’ve heard similar tales (only anecdotal, obvs, so take that as you may) from other friends and family as well with different chiropractors too, though. I’m pretty cool with having my issues dealt with after about a month’s worth of physio visits (yes, 1-3 visits a week declining over that period) and having my issue fixed. It’s all covered by work benefits any way, so really it’s just about what works for me - being fixed and done is much better than going back, consistently, forever.
Apart from taking drugs, what other mechanisms can we affect our own biochemistry besides manipulation of the stress/relaxation response?
Well, first, it’s all tied together, so you can’t just separate out meditation from yoga from exercise. They are all interrelated. To talk about them, there is the relaxation response, outlined by Herbert Benson in 1975. There are known psychological benefits to caring and nurturing activity like having pets and spending time with loved ones. Exercise makes you physically healthier and promotes good biochemical balance. Nature walks are also good on these multiple levels. Not nature walks to cure my cancer, but nature walks to calm my mind so that natural, subconscious processes have a chance to work.
But what if your lower mind, or subconscious, is screwed up? What if you de-stress, to allow the unconscious drives a chance to operate, but those unconscious processes are flawed and dangerous? How could you change those? How do you get to know them, and therefore judge if they are flawed or dangerous?
Lots more questions than answers.
This is me investigating the placebo effect deeply. Notice that I made no mention of homeopathy, cupping, leeching, bloodletting or rubbing crystals on my temples while chanting.
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Breathing tends to help. 
No srsly. I know I posted this in the meditation thread too but see Wim Hof’s method.
He’s been able to show some kind of control over his immune response in clinical trials.
Assuming that your neurotically twisted, natural subconscious processes are in some way defacto neurotic might be a little unhealthy. Perhaps this might be different for people with trauma to the CNS, but I think that on the whole, the prefigured makeup is good, and it is the neuroses born of stress (of different kinds) that requires alleviation.
And again, I would point to placebo’s inability to do anything with regrowing severed limbs or digits, it can only help the bodies ability to heal itself function more efficaciously.
So I guess, yes and ummm, what?
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I sound like a chiro fanboy. I’m not. I have been to a chiro many years ago. The guy was a charlatan, mostly around billing not the chiro. The chiro was fine, I guess. I much prefer: physical activity, deep tissue massage, and if the injury is horrid, then PT. Much prefer. But I would go to a chiro if I felt it would help.
The thing that bugs me about chiros, is that many of them blur the lines and get into all kinds of other woo therapies too. After all they are in the biz to make money. So, if you have clients coming in and their valence is candles, aromatherapy, and crystals, then you’re gonna want to not miss that business opportunity. I personally find it distasteful. Yes, there are plenty of chiros who do only chiropractic. Those are the ones I like better.
