Nerd is not a tribe

Correct! But those stats are largely not reported, or even gathered in the first place. Unless race was freely given in a resume (I.e. “I am a proud ethnic xyz”) I never even tried to categorize or record that kind of data for resumes that I rejected. I am pretty sure there may be laws around doing that sort of exercise :). And I have never even tried to guess, since I know I would be wrong (heh, I work with an Alex, Michael, and Bug and there is no way you would know ethnicity or gender from that :D)

In a non-racially tainted world we could measure the gap between applicants, hires, graduates, and local demographics. But I think there are some well meaning (and more effective than not) laws that prevent us from getting those numbers.

Hmm. Is nerd-shaming actually a problem? As a nerd and a gamer, I don’t feel much more shamed by this than by the “anti-gamer” articles the GamerGate yahoos are so worked up about.

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I think that’s true, but that’s likely in part at least, due to some stereotypes about Asians, that they are academically driven and better a math, etc. A positive stereotype is still a stereotype, right?

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No. What you did is hyperbole to inflame passions, and you’re doing it wrong.

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I’m not sure you understand racism and white privilege. Please sit back and listen to some people here for a minute.

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That’s the thing about race… it’s less about science and genetics, and more about systems of discrimination, which include assumptions about race, ethnicity, and gender, that still pervade our culture today. Whether or not someone is this or that percent African, Asian, or European, is actually irrelevant, it’s how someone is perceived by an employer, on both a conscious and unconscious level. Someone might not go around thinking about how much they dislike or see as other people of color, and they might consider themselves good, progressive, anti-racist liberals - but they might have some sneaking, unconscious reactions to someone’s name or appearance that leads them to throw them out of the pool of possible candidates, without even knowing that they are doing so based on race. Race is less a scientific fact and more more a social construct, frankly.

[Edited to add link] Recent work on the genetic roots of Europeans, regarding genetics from 30-40,000 years ago:

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What an absolute non-sequitur. Since you like those, I’m not sure you understand the phylogeny of coccolithophores, myself.

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I understand the equivocations of people in denial just fine, thanks!

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Oh, absolutely. Positive stereotypes can be harmful too – traditionally Jews were seen as “clever” and “ambitious” and that contributed to antisemitism and limits on Jewish enrollments even in US universities, and I’m sure there’s a fair amount of that feeling towards Asian immigrants today for similar reasons.

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Question frrom a non-native speaker of English here…

I thought “supremacy” means the state of being superior. And “white supremacy” is the claim that the “white race” is superior to all others, and therefore deserving of a higher status. Which is a false claim usually put forth by white racists.

You’re using it to describe facts of power imbalance, with “supremacy” meaning the state of (undeservedly) holding more power.

I thought that the KKK was made up of people who believe in white supremacy, rather than of people who want white supremacy.

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Supremacy means having more power [much more power], not being more good.

Superiority can mean either one.

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So, its the stereotype of Asians as studious and mathematically inclined that relates to their over-representation in this particular field.

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Yes and no. I think this gets quite complicated, really.

For one thing, I think there’s been some semantic drift, in that “nerd” now seems to be an expression for anyone in a STEM career or for anyone who is smart, and knowledgeable about a specific subject.

My understanding is that “nerd” began, roughly in the late 50s, as a pejorative expression describing engineers, scientists, and technicians – socially maladroit, politically naive, conformist, highly skilled, privileged specialists. This was extended to describe young adults, adolescents, and children, who resembled them and were expected to follow similar career paths.

The older depictions of nerds that I can recall tended to emphasize that they were privileged and loathe to defy authority on which they were dependent. Later on, when you start to see heroic hackers in popular fiction, there’s some implicit irony – of all people, this person is the rebel?

In reading accounts of Asperger’s Syndrome, I’ve thought that there’s such a close match between common characteristics of people with AS and commonly mocked attributes of nerds, that perhaps “nerd” should be understood as originally a pejorative term for people with Asperger’s Syndrome. Except, now that I’m considering it, it seems to describe a subset of those with AS: those who were privileged and groomed from childhood to be specialists in STEM careers.

One thing I found disturbing, in reading about Asperger’s Syndrome, is that it’s very common for people with AS to be victims of bullying – and that bullies, often, are also people with AS.

I have a lot of painful memories of being bullied as a child. One thing that strikes me, now that I reflect on it, is that often the bullies resented my relative privilege: I was, notoriously, a teacher’s pet, coddled and praised. And my best response to bullying was always to run to the authorities for protection. Oh, and I was white, and lower middle class – the poorest of the rich kids, the people in the college-prep classes in my public school.

I certainly don’t want to claim that bullying me was justified. But, I have to consider that they had good reason to resent me. They have perceived that they were like me, but were denied the opportunities I was being given.

So, I think that a lot of people who self-describe as nerds did experience bullying. But, there’s a fair amount of denial of how much privilege they have and how others have been denied that privilege.

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That video is utterly, utterly appalling. :frowning: Please tell me that cop is going to jail for a very long time?

From Fox News, a quick google later:

The 31-year-old former trooper is charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature, a felony that carries up to 20 years in prison.

Now ex-cop, OK. But if he hadn’t been such a bad shot he’d be a murderer —and probably have got away with it too. Little accident with the dash cam; dead men tell no tales …

He was released after paying 10 percent of a $75,000 bond.

Why?

And I’m so grateful our police don’t have sidearms here in New Zealand …

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Being white means never having to think about it.

–James Baldwin

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Certainly; it also contributes to the glass celings they face in terms of promotion. Or more specifically, the bamboo ceiling.

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In a majority white society. If you’re white and go to live as a minority in another culture for a while, it forces you to realise that the majority culture is unaware of itself.

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Absolutely. And I think Baldwin would have agreed.

He didn’t have to add “unless one lives in a non-white culture for a while” for his claim to make very clarifying sense.

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Do nerds literally imagine they are their own race or is that hyperbole? It strikes me as hyperbole. I know of no one who, if asked their race, would reply “Nerd”. By this very plain language, common sense understanding, these words are hyperbole. I imagine any nerd who read them would say “That’s not fair, I don’t actually believe that at all, why would anyone say such a thing”. This creates what they call “the curiosity gap”, which is a key feature of click-bait headlines. I’m also confused by your statement that what I am doing is hyperbole. In what way is it? And I’m doing it wrong? As in it didn’t inflame passions? If it failed to inflame passions, clearly that would be OK with me, as it was not my intent. Perhaps you just wished to express your opposition to what you perceive to be my worldview? I’m sorry if you think I’m being unfair in some way. I think it is possible to discuss racism and so on without hyperbole, and the quoted bits honestly struck me as such.

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I was recently talking to a colleague (who is white and studies African history) about her experiences teaching at a HBCU, and she was talking about how weird it was for her to be, essential profiled because of her whiteness, something she’d never experienced before. I’d hope such experiences would actually create a space of self-reflection about privilege and white supremacy, but I think all too often, some just use it as an excuse to engage in a “they do it too” narrative.

Even in the case that @aeon is talking about (being white, living in a non-white country), many of the countries as they are now constructed (meaning everything from state structures right on down to borders) have been shaped by 19th and 20th century European/American imperialism. The world is made up of nation-states in part because of how Europe (mainly Britain and France) and the US constructed political legitimacy in a global world, much like we still think in terms of race, because that was a powerful strain of thought in the 19th and 20th centuries in attempting to justifying global political and economic control of their colonies. Its worth noting that the Japanese deployed that language to both push back against the US and to justify their own imperialism.

The more you think about it, the more difficult it seems to get out of this set of discourses… It’s kind of depressing.

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