What’s she got to do with it?
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I wouldn’t want to offend her accidentally.
On one hand, you’re right, I am reading into something and making some assumptions. On the other hand, it seems like a baited statement I fell for.
Are you saying that you meant you agreed with me then?
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As I mentioned above, I will next time.
I promise I will.
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first, That you are likely to be perceived as offensive by many people, regardless of if it is ‘correct’ for them to do so. Big news flash I’m sure
And second also that there are no end of places where that sort of talk will get your teeth removed free of charge, were you to mouthbreath that way within arms length of people you invalidate.
It is easy to run ones mouth online, to provoke… because there is no consequence for you when you turn off the monitor and you’re done with YOUR fun for the day. Who givs a fuck about the people you’ve just thrown to the margin!!! It was their fault, somehow? “they weren’t clear enough”…
Fun at the expense of others is gross. You do seem to do that, from time to time - this appearing to be one of those times - but I will gladly admit I may be mistaken.
Thank you for asking, eventually. The please was a nice touch.
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but but but… how could arrowheads and tribal headdresses on footbal uniforms POSSIBLY keep such simpleminded racial sterotypes going? It’s not like kids watch this stuff. /s
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I generally am not trying to provoke anyone. At least not into action, but perhaps to think about something from a different perspective.
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In a land of tongue-in-cheek snark, and eye rolling gifs, I ask for some forgiveness in applying assumptions with what you said. You have to admit there have been many posts with “wink wink, nudge nudge” undertones. Sarcasm is also rampant, but can be hard to pick up on in text vs speech. But some times a cigar is just as cigar and your post I should have taken at face value, vs assigning it what I thought you meant. You obviously really hate that, so I will take care not avoid that in the future.
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I don’t typically have fun at other people’s expense. I do joke around some, but usually that is clear-ish when I am trying to be funny (even if it isn’t actually funny). And I rarely if ever directly make fun of someone. I have been the butt of enough jokes that I avoid making fun of anyone specifically. Actually I do a lot of self deprecating humor.
I think there is a difference from saying something isn’t offensive, vs saying someone shouldn’t be offended. I think I can give a valid reason on why I feel something is or isn’t offensive. Of course if someone is offended, that is how they feel. But when it comes to this, people get offended all the time over many different things. Have you never said something to someone only to find out later it really hurt their feelings? You can quantify if someone was offended, you can’t always quantify if something is or isn’t offensive.
Also, I may think my opinion is right, but does that make me arrogant? Is someone else with an opposite opinion arrogant too? I am usually respectful of any opinion that can be articulated even if I disagree with it. Though if I have ample evidence your opinion is wrong, I will show that to you (e.g. the earth isn’t 6000 years old).
Well I think it is a large complex issue. America has had a love/hate relationship with Native Americans for a long time. There are many, many examples of them working together with mutual respect and cohabitation. They are uniquely American, and we have featured them on our currency and stamps for a long time. They embody many things America claims to stand for - independence, freedom, the ability to stand up for themselves, pride, honor, etc. It also represented the wild frontier spirit. Even when we were still corralling them and screwing them over with treaties, we had them on our coins. I mean, that there has to say something about there being a sort of awe and respect for a people when you are still in active conflict with them, yet put them on your coins. I mean could you imagine putting say ISIS fighters on a coin? Or German or Japanese soldiers?
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I wonder if you would benefit from reading up on the dialogical self?
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Yes, yes, yes. I thought I was through with this thread, but I can’t leave without giving you kudos for this post. One of my several ethnicities, although not Indian, is that of another people colonized by the American empire. What you’re saying is very perceptive and totally right on.
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heads up, get used to that from him, too.
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Right, I can’t determine if someone is offended or not. I can’t tell them how to feel.
Can I have an opinion on what is offensive?
Because if I can’t then how does one determine what is offensive? If I can’t have an opinion that something is not offensive, why is MY opinion invalidated, but the offended person’s opinion is not?
Surely you can think of something that others would find offense at that you are totally 100% ok with. Whether that is breast feeding in public, women showing too much skin, nudity, cussing, certain books etc.
No, I don’t think people are having feelings just for the sake of argument.
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He’s said a positive thing as well as an appalling, lazy sterotype, that how equality works for billionaires isn’t it?
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White people on the Internet, mainly.
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I note that there are no German football teams with a logo of a fat man with a big nose and a bulging money bag, and called something like “The Yids”. Which is a pretty close approximation.
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you are indeed an observer. Does that mean anything? I don’t understand.
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The logo is a caricature.
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By your same failed logic, you can whisk away any pejorative meaning to the n-word. The root word is, after all, “black,” nothing more. What you don’t seem to understand is that context and how the word was used historically is everything. If a word has been used for centuries as a deeply pejorative term, on an ethnic minority that has been and remains persecuted and marginalized, it does not magically become acceptable because you can manage to find an obscure alternative explanation.
It almost seems like you’re being satirically contrarian, but I do feel the need to ask: Do you live on Earth?
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The truth and subsequent middle ground we all should focus on is that naming a group or team after some sort of icon or mascot is a common practice. Its not reserved for sports alone. In corporate america there are systems teams, or agility teams, or work groups named similarly as “Tiger Team” or something similar. Military units have nicknames as well both fictitiously (Howling Commandos) and in real life (101st Airborne Screaming Eagles).
The question lies in asking when does the nickname/mascot/logo/trademark cross the line from being a badge meant to immortalize and honor its subject to one that is derogatory and demeaning to its subject. The Washington Redskins use a an image that may not be offense to most but a term that is at its core offense and derogatory to a people. The Florida State Seminoles fall on the other side of that fence, The Seminole warrior and everything along with it represented by the University is done with express reverence meant to honor the people whose land the University stands on today.
In the end if one person is offended, well we need to see some level of reason and should acknowledge we can’t please everyone. However when an entire people and even a slim margin that leads to a majority of people finding something cringe-worthy and offensive, people should also see reason and change it.
People like Dan Snyder and Bob McNair feel that “seeing reason” means we all see “THEIR” reason. That alone is reason enough to change the name.
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It comes down to which you think matters: Is it INTENDED to be offensive or is it perceived to be offensive? While it certainly expropriate the Native American image, partly because the popularity of football at the Carlisle Indian school, it isn’t in this case really intended, either today or historically to denigrate Native American, even though the term was often used to offend. To some, the conversation ends there: " I didn’t mean to offend anybody so if they are offended it is THEIR problem." I can’t say that I subscribe to that opinion. Not using terms that are commonly considered offensive is just common courtesy, and doesn’t imply that everything has to be changed to accommodate the most easily offended.
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