I think that’s because most critiques have been downright terrible. 
Or not even critiques at all, but the “zomg she said she doesn’t like games” gotcha-style attack pieces.
It’s also very close to the kinds of attacks negative reviews of popular games attract. There are a large number of gamers that respond poorly to any kind of criticism.
That’s true, and I’ve found comments by people like Thunderf00t to be whiny and insanely rambling, without being particularly enlightening. On the other hand, I do find a number of statements that Anita makes to be pretty tenuous and a proper discussion incorporating positive aspects from a number of perspectives is needed. Not to reject what she says or dismiss bad experiences, but to get a better picture of reality. To do that, we have to stop focusing on trollies as much and allow more reasonable voices to speak.
A lot of the alternative perspectives AS supporters seem to raise are specifically chosen because they’re attacks or invalid, not because they add to the discussion. Despite Elsa being a voice supposedly from GG and criticised as such here, her articles seem to have a good mix of why she likes gaming and what pushes her away, perspectives on what it’s like for a woman to have to play as a male character and some respectful criticism of AS with mostly sane comments (where she repeatedly defends AS’ right to make her comments and accept whatever money is given to her without deserving any criticism from those who haven’t given her any, and welcomes the opportunity to have a discussion that she hopes won’t be derailed by the harassment - oh well). The disagreement on whether harassment is mostly against women or a more general problem is more of a side issue for me - if everyone agrees that it’s damaging and has to be addressed, there’s a consensus that can be reached. If everyone agrees that women’s presence in gaming, including FPS games needs to be respected more, there’s a potential dialogue.
I may be accused of white knighting here, but as far as I’m concerned, I want to hear different voices in this discussion. AS is still talking about these issues and rightly so - where other people offer valid critiques that aren’t just supporting the status quo, I welcome their input.
Indeed, when violence does not solve conflicts in video games, it is simply because I did not use enough of it.
I really struggle with this “everything should appeal equally to both genders” mindset. First, it is patently untrue, and second, what exactly is wrong with having a romance novel section alongside a military fiction section? In the context of all available magazines, why is it bad to have a men’s magazine section and a women’s magazine section?
Now if the argument is that there is effectively only a military fiction or men’s magazines section in the video game world, then yeah, that is bullshit. Choice is good, diversity is good. But in a world of infinite smartphone and tablet games, I have a hard time seeing that.
I think more women would enjoy Fallout if they gave it a shot.
It’s not perfect as a series, but I have at least one good friend who is lamenting the release of Fallout 4 because she will miss watching her daughter grow up. 
Fallout does make a great effort to be inclusive and accessible to whomever. Such a great balance of narrative, and numbers to make cleanly line up in perfection.
Heck, Skyrim, too. My impression is that Skyrim already does have a pretty good female following, though.
That’s where the bit about games “growing up” is relevant. There’s a lot less you can do in a few hundred kilobytes of a smartphone app than in the gigabytes of a game for a PC or a console.
I believe it does. There are definitely some women who’ve played significant roles in the fan community and the mod-making community.
One of the things I’ve always liked about RPGs is that there was usually a larger proportion of women involved. The player groups I’ve participated in, in online role-playing groups, usually had about equal numbers of women and men. This was my experience in the first MMO I played, Asheron’s Call, as well as in EvE Online. I also played on a Neverwinter Nights persistent world for several years, in which about as many women as men participated.
The one catch with the gaming groups in MMOs was that to participate, you usually had to be invited – since there were the wolf packs of men who would harass anyone they believed was a woman. One effect of this was that women who were not yet members of some group that they felt they could trust, tended to hide their gender identity to avoid harassment – so they, too, would underestimate the number of women playing.
One reason I’ve been dismayed with the design trends of MMOs is that they’ve tended to cut down on opportunities for social interaction.
Can we talk about this?
I read APoW’s post with interest. APoW purports to work in the games industry, an industry that is notoriously exploitative in demanding long hours of hard, hard work. He states baldly that this is work that women would not want to do.
Now, I am sure we can agree it’s not because women can’t work hard but, in general, because women, even in the 21st century, are the ones looking after the children and the household. And even if a particular woman doesn’t have kids, she is, whether she likes it or not, responsible for the majority of housework in a relationship, even if she also has a career. This is lamentable but it is the real world.
So, for stating what is generally the reality, APoW get’s nothing but hyperbole and raw aggression from everyone except Jeff.
APoW responds logically and with citations to the less hysterical replies, even in so far as to have a good back and forth with Jeff and then APoW is BANNED - for what? For daring not to follow the group think? For arguing with logic and backing opinion with citations and sources?
Really?
Boing Boing, you had an opportunity. An opportunity to engage with someone from the coal face of the industry. To further your point of view, to try and put it across, and you blew it - big time.
Maybe APoW was a troll - if so, APoW was very polite one. A lot more polite than the detractors. What if he wasn’t? What if he really came here to engage? You shut him out like the young nerd that APoW once purported to be was shut out. As irrelevant, as not having an opinion that mattered. Do you really think that helped further your view point or just re-enforced APoW’s own?
The irony is that on a discussion regarding a lack of inclusion for one demographic, it seems there is a real lack of inclusion for any another.
#YesAllSmallDogs
After months of articles and discussion about Gamergate, about the sexist campaign of terror against women working in game development and criticism, Boing Boing re-launched Offworld, featuring writings – such as this article, currently the lead article – written by the very women, about the very experiences, that that sexist was denying.
But… where’s the line? When disagreeing with a holy cow can get you ejected out of the discussion, will there be anyone left to question them? We all know what happens when unquestioned groupthink sets in.
A polite, tame, rational disagreement that leads to a permaban instead of to a deeper discussion. Way to go.
He was talking unmitigated bullshit. That’s where the line is drawn.
Without actually argumenting the individual points, it’s hard WAY too easy to say so.
However “polite”, it was a direct argument for gender essentialism, which is straight-up sexist. Nevertheless, he got eleven direct responses, four of which were simply objections, seven of which were refutations of points he argued. So it’s hardly the case that his argument was ignored.
And none addressed that Norwegian study he linked the video of.
Can’t the truth be somewhere in between? You can’t argue away the physical and biochemical differences between genders, nor etological differences in close-to-us animals. So there’s a major argument for innate behavioral differences, and therefore likely probabilistic behavioral correlations (you’ll find counterexamples for all of them, so it is about their count). So the question is not if there are differences, as there are, but how much and how flat the Gaussian curves (assuming normal distribution) are.
The following issue is about the right of the statistical outliers to be whatever they want to be, regardless where the averages are.
And what’s the “gender essentialism”, anyway? Wikipedia has nothing and I don’t possess a degree in gender studies to know from top of head.
…and should I worry about being banned for arguing this?
I’m sorry but WTF are you talking about?
APoW didn’t reference GG, you did and I have to say it looks like more hyperbole to me. He didn’t deny that Gaming and Game Development aren’t male dominated. He stated it as his own observation, he confirmed it. He put forward a male orientated rationalisation (he mansplained it, if you like - and that will happen if you have a white-male-nerd-privileged point of view). He was open to discussion, he was engaging - with Jeff mainly.
If you thought his argument was gender essentialism, why didn’t you put that forward instead of just plain attacking him? Why didn’t you try and open his eyes instead of just shutting his mouth?
I just feel like, you don’t want people to debate or try and show them they are blind to the kind of ingrained sexism that leads to a world state where (and I am condensing the main article) - there are no games for girls - or more problematically - girls just don’t play games, that’s not what girls do.
This is the whole Sealion thing again.
#YesAllSmallDogs
And women aren’t saying that now.
Pointing out that all the scissors are right handed when you are a lefty just doesn’t mean you have to learn to use left handed scissors. It just means I want some lefties.
1924, Washingto DC, “Bonus Bureau, Computing Division. Many clerks figure the amount of the bonus each veteran is entitled to.”
Too young, but BBS’s were a thing since the late 70s since Usenet was a university toy really… least from everything I’d been able to tell.
My point was not that APoW was ignored but that he was silenced.
popobawa4u and codinghorror did.
The core argument was that women are not interested in computer technology and never have been, backed up by a claim that gender essentialism explains this. The core claim was countered with references to the history of computing, in which in its early stages employed proportionally more women. His descriptions of the nature of software development and why women prefer other occupations were countered by disputing his characterization of software development and of occupations in which many women are employed, particularly child care.
It’s rather odd for you to claim this immediately after having described the basic idea. Also, typing “gender essentialism” in the Wikipedia search tool sends you directly to this section of the article on “essentialism”
No, I was referring to Elsa_K.
The dude literally started by posting sweeping, sexist, outright, 100% lies with no basis in reality as facts, and used his complete lack of facts to attack women. The fact that you see that as “logical” speaks ill of you. Bullshit like this:
Is also completely and totally untrue with no basis in reality at all. And when people like pixelshifter responded in facts and citations on how what he was saying was outright wrong, he… outright ignored them and refused to budge. That makes him go from “a guy who is just wrong”, to “someone who is deliberately, knowingly lying in order to be a sexist ass”.
But yeah, posting links proving a guy wrong about the sexist stuff he says is “hyperbole and raw aggression”, while making sweeping, counter-factual statements that have no basis in reality is “logically and with citations”. So come on, tell me - where is the logic and citations that show that women had nothing to do with the creation and development of programming? You’ve claimed they existed, now please show the ones that aPackofWankers, specifically, cited. You wouldn’t be lying to defend his sexism, would you?
Are you deliberately trying to be obtuse?
Yes, Ada Lovelace, Yes Admiral Hopper, Yes the women of Bletchley park. But the gaming industry IS a male dominated industry in the same way coal mining is a male dominated industry. SW Devs in Games Development industry are exploited, no doubt. They are pushed to work stupid crunch time and paid a pittance because they love games and their employers know it. It’s not just that women aren’t wanted (although in any male dominated arena that will happen and is and undeniably sexist part of the equation) and not because women don’t want to but mainly because working in the game dev world is incompatible with family/children/life in general.
This is one of APoW’s points - I just don’t think he states it very well.
I don’t see how you can argue with that, it is after all the thrust of the main article.
And this is where APoW needs his eyes opened. He doesn’t see women in gaming happening because, if you accept that Games Development is inherently female unfriendly not JUST because of sexism but mainly because it is not compatible with family / children / life in general then only those with the most love for Games will do it. Any woman who puts games above her partner / children / small pets is not going to have an easy path.
The game industry has to change - it has to - because even those game loving cis-nerds are getting wise to the exploitation, to the shitty long days and piss poor pay. And when it does the women who love games need to be there, they need to be ready - and they may just find they have more allies then they thought.
#YesEvenThisSmallDog
