"Nothing in life is truly free" -Billionaire heiress Betsy Devos, explaining to Bernie Sanders why your kids won't get free college tuition

I’m pretty sure that plan is outlined somewhere on page 53 of the Republican Wet Dream Playbook…

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Ah. So Dick’s the head.

Of the family I mean.

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Better to just resign ourselves to making and watching Trump jokes on the internet, letting our lives slip into ennui and mediocrity than to even suggest there’s a better way to do politics than the current paradigm. Change is scary! Amirite, bruh?

Careful what you wish for. Under our current system, “getting lost” is just deadweight loss. Imagine what the roads and signage would look like if someone could actually profit from it?

Hopefully I’d get to talk to each of them and make a decision on that basis. Probably the online one because he demonstrated initiative and took a chance on something new and different, whereas the college kid is probably a child of privilege following a lifescript that was handed to him by his parents. Most people in a four year undergrad program seem to be drifting along with the current rather than taking an active role in their own lives in my experience. (To be fair, I’m describing myself there.)

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Do they call it ‘soft money’ because it’s like ‘soft porn’? Meaning it’s totally obvious fucking is happening, but they just always keep it offscreen?

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Well, how do you feel about taking the tax money already subsidizing the colleges that charge sixty large, and redirecting it to colleges that charge one tenth as much, which will permit them to teach deserving poor students at no cost to that student’s parents? All it will mean is that some rich kids don’t have a starbucks at the end of the hall, really, if what I’ve seen over the past three years is any guide (I have one kid in college and another starting next year).

If they are capable of doing the job, I prefer to hire people who didn’t go to college. When I worked at Thiokol half the tech guys I worked with were West Virginia good ol’ boys who had a high school education, but could do calculus without a calculator, if you know what I mean…

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:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

I mean, I’d like tuition free BAs for all at public institutions, but this would be an excellent start!

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Ironically, Cory is at Davos right now…

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What’s sad, is that to many of the jingoistic fools here who love to harp about the second amendment every time a Democrat is even mentioned, this would be great. My uncle is one of those guys, and he would be thrilled to hear both that the plan was to protect and honor the constitution and to inject God into every single public institution in America. There are so many contradictions with these type of people. There are so many contradictions between all their different sets of ontologies that there really isn’t a good way to get through to them. And now, when you try, they just realize you must be a ‘Liberal’, and that means you are a liar/commie/pervert/want their guns and butthole.

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Anyone know what he’s doing there? Speaking on a panel or anything? Just there for the free food?

“Nothing in life is truly free.”

But her Orange Leader says Americans are going to have great things. The best things. And haven’t we always been told that they are free?

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Actually, it is on page one of the minority president’s playbook, his entire “infrastructure plan” is really just tax breaks for toll roads.

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/313145-toll-roads-poised-to-boom-under-trump-plan

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We JUST got rid of the toll road in the ATL! Like… last year it was!!!

Of course, would they consider pay to ride roads to be toll roads, cause we have those now under the peach pass system (and I think the NW corridor they are building with be part of that). I wonder if those count as “toll roads” in this definition? Seems a bit unclear after skimming it?

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“Charge” is not necessarily a good measure. Many of the colleges that cost less (eg, community colleges) do so because they are already heavily subsidized, not because they are a cheap way to educate people on a dollars/student basis. Analysis from initiatives like the the Delta Cost project tell us that the most cost-efficient purveyors of higher education are large universities without a primary research focus: for example, Cal State instead of either UC or junior colleges.

For me as a 1st-gen college student the most transformative aspect of my education was not the material I studied, but the experience of 4 years immersed in an environment where I could focus on building myself as a person, surrounded by people I would not normally have had a close relationship with, and encouraged to consider possibilities which would not have otherwise been part of my world. This is why I have been skeptical of the Obama administration’s focus on community colleges and vocational education, but also why I support any system that encourages rich kids and poor kids to go to the same schools even if it means unnecessarily subsidizing the former.

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I totally agree with this.

But I’d also say that community colleges are a great way for people who can’t have that immersive experience can still get a college degree of some sort. I don’t want colleges to just be a glorified vocational training, but I don’t think it has to be either/or. I want more working class kids getting advanced degrees that lead to their helping to shape future knowledge. But I also want a place where people can get a leg up in the job market and give their family a brighter future.

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Well, obviously the hypothetical was vague. If I also said the school was a diploma mill you might feel differently, and if there were a third applicant who specifically said his education was “going to the library every day for 5 years straight to read everything I could, just like Frank Zappa always recommended” then I might pick him. But the argument was really about “who would the typical employer hire”, and maybe we don’t have an answer to that, but I suspect the guy with the traditional college diploma has the upper hand.

Depends on the change, don’t it? There are a lot of alternatives to the current political climate I could suggest that you would not want. Just because it’s a change doesn’t mean it’s an improvement.

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That’s funny. I don’t see anything I wrote suggesting that the political system in America shouldn’t adapt or update. What I do see in my answer is, 1) pushback against any sort of thinking that the Russian people of today have better politics/political will than Americans because that’s ludicrous, and 2) “Hey, let’s have a revolution because Russia did it once” is a stupidly low bar when considering what American politics should look like.

Further, if you’re thinking revolution is the way America is going to ‘get better’ in any sense of the phrase, then I’m done. Feel free to continue without me.

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Sure, so let me recount how the discussion went:

  1. Someone said (paraphrasing) well, the russian revolution didn’t end up going in a great direction, but at least they tried something.
  2. Someone else (@wrecksdart) said “How’s that working for the Russian people of late?”
  3. Since @wrecksdart responded to a comment that said essentially, “hey, at least they tried something” I took his response as a criticism of trying things in general.
  4. You point out that some changes are better than others, which I didn’t mention because it seemed so bloody obvious to me.

Huh, how were you able to interview all the people of Russia and confirm this? Presumably it must have been a pretty efficient operation to preclude the possibility that someone in Russia might have had a new idea since the last time you interviewed them…

I don’t think that’s a reasonable interpretation of either what the initial commenter was saying, nor my response to your reply to that person.

So when Bernie Sanders said his presidency needed to be accompanied by a “political revolution” (something he said over and over again and was a basic premise of his entire campaign), you think he probably meant some violent overthrow of the political elite and this was a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad thing you wanted no part of?

There’s a lot of ways to interpret the word “revolution”. Many people think the “scientific revolution” improved our understanding of the natural world. Many people think the American Revolution was on net a positive development. I’m not sure why you would write it off completely – maybe you could develop your thought a bit instead of rage quitting at the first sign of someone disagreeing with you?

I don’t think she was trying to reach out to him at all. She was going through the motions of answering questions to get her confirmation, nothing more. She isn’t interested in working with him unless it involves him giving her whatever she wants.

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I heard he’s checking out an Owl Cult for @jlw!

@d_r, I wish you were on my local school board. Your whole post, but this, in particular:

Word.

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