The basic theme I’m hearing is “They are being coercive so we need to respond coercively to protect our freedom. They started it! They do not deserve human rights protections against coercion since they forfeited them. They are not us, they are the other”
The idea that I’m trying to convey is that “othering” makes our society worse not better. Even when you are good/right and they are bad/wrong. Even when they have more power in the moment.
Indeed, those are strategies not needs, and those strategies would be considered violent under the the NVC schema. When confronted with violence, the first priority is to protect oneself from it. Often that takes the form of stopping engaging with the aggressor.
Exactly. The concept of “sinner” is pretty much the same as “other”, except that the church pretends to believe in redemption.
Short answer is I’ve mostly just been busy with other things. Long answer is that I’ve found the closest to a conversation that I can have on BB is to focus on listening rather than arguing. The more unpopular opinions I post the more the thread ends up being about how “other” I am. The quick tribal/reactionary posts escalate, and the thread gets killed before the longer more thoughtful responses even make it to the BBS. This thread has been powerful in that it stayed open long enough for thoughtful responses to get posted.
Except, not “coercively” but proactively to protect our rights. Despite what they SAY, no one violates THEIR rights by living their lives how they see fit. No one takes away their rights by getting an abortion, or having gay sex, or transitioning, or not going to church. They are working to IMPOSE their way of life ON US. They are being coercive, but those fighting to protect their rights are not being coercive. It’s pretty bad faith to say otherwise.
We are calling them out for WHAT they are doing to OTHER PEOPLE. Do we “other” the Nazis when we say they committed genocide? No. That’s called “stating facts.” When we say that they are acting to take away the human rights of half the country, we are not “othering” them we are stating facts.
There are a hundred posts in this thread you started. Can you find any this is a fair description for? For someone ostensibly interested in dialog, you sure don’t seem to have paid any attention to what the rest of us have said.
No its just a reiteration of the same bullshit that was common in the 19th Century leading to the most obviously racist immigration law we had on record in 1924.
The point is to force more white Christian womenfolk, those who would normally have means and access to abortion, to have more children.
…so there is a supply of white Christian babies to counter the hordes of minorities/immigrants (especially Muslim ones).
I see what people who disagree with me think every day, I experience their hatred on a daily basis. Polite hatred is still hatred, and it’s not actually polite.
They burned their bridges a long time ago. It’s not my responsibility to rebuild them when it is still dangerous on the other side. Better to put up warning signs.
If you were really interested in dialogue, you would know about this because you would have actually talked to us to find out what the problem is.
I’m tired of this Zentrumist bullshit from people who won’t listen to me. They will be the death of me, possibly very literally.
Edit: I have made a bug-out bag for the first time in my life. I never felt like I needed one before.
Like fetus worshipers calling people “murderers” and “baby-killers”. Yes they have made our society worse. You would be foolish to ignore this and attack the reaction to the violent immoral crap they sling.
The need is to grab power and impose it on others.
"Redemption meaning one abandons the traits they consider “other”. Essential a demand for total capitulation or face the consequences.
Look, the topic of reproductive rights is a uniquely bad topic for a discussion of othering as it pertains to ideology. And right now is a uniquely bad time for such a discussion.
If you want to have such a discussion about ideological othering, why not start with pizza toppings or something else that isn’t putting actual lives at stake right now?
I know I already responded once, but this really makes me upset. You have heard from people here who are personally being hurt by this, including one who explicitly mentioned being prepared to flee, including one who explained how her life is at stake. How the hell do you look at them, the victims, and talk about how their attitudes to that are making society worse?
It’s not just othering that makes society worse, it’s not having any compassion for other people. And I can’t see any in that. If you wonder why people get upset at your unpopular opinions like this, let me suggest it’s not tribalism, it’s because you don’t seem to give a damn about them.
Please stop claiming you’ve heard anything. There are people here who have shared how their lives are at stake and all you’ve offered is that they should try to understand and be compassionate toward those who want to kill them.
If your interest really is making society better attacking people who are already victims isn’t the way to do it. If you really want to make things better try listening to what the problems are before you start giving people orders about what’s wrong and how to fix it.
I am so sorry you had to do that. It shouldn’t be this way. My partner and I discussed how we would need to leave Texas if our kid came out as trans. And how much savings we had on hand vs how much we would need. Yesterday we discussed the line at which we would need to flee either the state or country for the sake of our AFAB child.
Then we discussed staying as long we could to vote and to fight.
The basic theme I’m hearing from you is that you want to have a conversation about having conversations. Great.
First, a little anecdata: Personally, I’ve known some “pro-life” activists. My first serious boyfriend told me the woman he’d dated before me was such a person. They would spend weekends going to demonstrations to try to force other women to carry unwanted pregnancies to term.
Then they had an “oopsie” and she got pregnant.
She got an abortion. Which, no thanks to her, was still within her rights.
In your definition, was she a “bad” person for wanting to take away rights from others that she then had access to?
Personally, I am willing to discuss the abortion issue with people in my life who are trying to strip away women’s bodily autonomy. I do it without “othering” them or “coercing” them.
What I’m not willing to do is demand that everyone else do the same.
It’s not my fucking right to decide how other people use their time or their bodies.
I apologize. For you, it’s an existential crisis. For me, a white man approaching 60, this is a stupid thought experiment. I don’t mean to downplay their actions or motives as anything less than insane and horrible.
Bullshit. That would only be true if Pro-Choice people were forcing Pro-Life people to have abortions. They aren’t. If you’re against abortion - don’t have one. The only coercion is from the forced birthers. Your false equivalence is both false and offensive.
Oh, grow up. You put “unpopular” opinions out there and people disagree with them. Sometimes vehemently, because your little “dialogue on dialogue” directly affects their lives and well-being. You’re not being “othered,” you’re being disagreed with. If you’re unprepared for that, don’t post things you know are going to get a reaction. And don’t play the victim when you get one.
