Originally published at: https://boingboing.net/2021/01/12/our-centuries-old-use-of-they-as-a-singular-pronoun.html
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Other languages retain this familiar/formal optional usage; Du - Sie, ты - вы, etc.
I think it should be thought of in the same way. Not “I don’t know this particular person’s preferred gender so I will cover my ass”, but rather “I am showing everyone I am not intimate with polite respect.”
I see a lot of language tutorials and videos that lament this, and suggest just skipping to the informal so you don’t sound like Dickens or something, but I would much prefer “normal” to head back to “respectful by default.”
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English is particularly oddly served here…
I : a name I call myself
Thou : familiar 2nd person, used by Englishmen when talking to God.
He/She : 3rd person singulars, use with caution
We : a respectful way of referring to ourself if we are Royal.
You : 2nd person, may be singular or plural
They : 3rd person with ass coverage, may be singular or plural.
I don’t think people show respect when they refer to someone as ‘they’: the example “Hey! They cut me up!” isn’t particularly respectful. But there should always be a safe option.
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I’m okay with using “they” as singular, but I’d like to see a new genderless pronoun similar to what Sweden has introduced.
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Cover your ass? Not a genuine desire to avoid misgendering a person whose gender you don’t know?
People act like using “she” to refer to a woman who is transgender is politically correct when it’s actually just correct.
For me the point of “they” is to not bother screaming “THIS PERSON IS MALE!” or “THIS PERSON IS FEMALE!” in the middle of every sentence when it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
When it comes to respect, I’m mindful of something I read in these forums this very morning, that sometimes people say “respect” to mean acknowledging someone is a person, and sometimes they say it to mean acknowledging their authority. Using a pronoun that someone has asked you to use because it means something to them if the former. A person getting mad at you for using a gender neutral pronoun when you really ought to have been able to tell their gender by looking at them is the latter.
I like this idea but it’s a really tough hill to climb.
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Cover your ass? Not a genuine desire to avoid misgendering a person whose gender you don’t know?
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See the efforts to introduce pronouns like “xhe.” They/them works, and has a long history in this country if folks think about it: “Hey Mom! Somebody’s at the door!” “Well, ask them what they want.” Not politically correct or ass covering, just acknowledging that she did not know the proper form address. I am an old fart, and stumble, stutter and misgender on occasion. It’s embarrassing, mostly because I am firmly in denial about being an old fart, but it is very very doable. We just need to commence with the doing.
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This isn’t helpful, however, since the polite form only exists in the second person, which is gender neutral anyway, while singular they is trying to solve the gendered nature of the third person singular.
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Yeah, don’t skip it in German while talking to an adult you don’t know because it WILL make you sound like a small child.
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Well, my poorly expressed point was more that we could frame this whole process as a showing of respect for those we shouldn’t pretend to be familiar with, in the same way the formal/informal I mentioned is used.
It would just be cool if it was a built-in standard intent of the language to be respectful by default, and not some perceived change to address one aspect of being “careful”.
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Numerous ones have been suggested over the last 30-50 years, but only they has had widespread adoption. I’d say it is a lost battle, but really it is a won battle where the victory is not perfect.
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Some of us Northerners still use variations on thou in everyday language.
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Well, some of us in the south use informal 2nd person, like “dear,” “sugar” and “sweetie.” These are strongly not to be recommended.
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I should have specified Northern Englanders. Some of us are still resisting the idea that the Normans invaded 1000 years ago.
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I knew what you meant, just playing off it. 
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Can we please just accept that “They/Them/Their” has been a non-gendered singular pronoun for a very long time? That it is a completely cromulent form of speaking for both when the gender of the individual being referenced is unknown, and when the individual prefers not to be gendered?
Because some people do prefer not to be gendered.
This goes without saying that when a gender identity is known, one should use it; it is deeply an ass move to purposefully mis-gender someone and it reflects poorly on the person speaking, not the subject of the speech.
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Why not both? I want to not do the bad thing for myself and the other person. If this constitutes covering my ass, then I hope my ass is covered: no-one wants it otherwise. I was tempted not to reply because it is all too easy to earn the CAPITALS, but I thought I ought to stick my neck out, as I do use ‘they’ and I like it because it works.
I am less keen on that sort of thing. Languages are living things. They die a ittle if people try and force rules on them. Plus, who get to decide what is right? But I dunno…
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Yes, and they change over time. When new needs arise, old words are used differently and new words are added.
No one is talking about forcing rules, just giving people options.
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I had a teacher point out to my class that we didn’t blink at using ‘they’ as singular - we all felt it perfectly natural - 25 years ago. I’ve been a bit confused by people arguing otherwise in recent years.
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