I read the article and the responses. It really does “feel” like most of you do not get what “white privilege” feels like? If the woman did not want this young man sitting next to her, she should have moved, instead she choose to insult the man and o add insult to injury, her husband attempted to fulfill his assumed roll as “man and protector”. More men have lost their lives and/or been injured by the actions or inferred slights by the careless women in their lives. What occurred on that Southwest flight was not okay. You people who feel the pilot responded correctly probably also agree with “stop and frisk”! The Big Brown Native guy lives in a world that was stolen from his ancestors and receives less respect than any other group in America and yet no one found fault with the woman’s conduct! Amazing! Simply amazing!
Does he realize what “male privilege” feels like, incidentally? He seems to be curiously blind to that, and to how the woman in question may perceive a large male stranger sitting next to her and making a fuss when she’s uncomfortable.
Playing devil’s advocate here: it’s entirely possible that the couple wasn’t, in fact, racist. Another completely reasonable explanation for their behaviour is that they had a baby, and didn’t want ANYBODY sitting in the seat between them (it’s unclear if the plane was full or not). I have played that little trick when travelling with a baby before. Or that she didn’t want a big dude in full camo gear sitting next to her (which is more classist than racist, I have a big shaven-headed white friend who gets similar treatment of people being afraid of him because he goes around in full camo gear all the time). And then when the last person (coincidentally a white middle aged woman, but more importantly the last passenger to board the plane) got on the plane and the dude was still there, she realized that she had to do something to try to save face. And then when the guy called her out for being rude and a liar (which she was, but rude people hate being called rude), she understandably didn’t want this guy sitting next to them for the whole flight.
I’m not saying that’s what happened, but without any otherwise obviously racist behaviour from the couple, it’s a plausible alternate theory.
On top of that, the author is kind of an asshole for escalating to threats of violence, despite him saying that the husband “turned what were simply words into possibly a really bad situation.” The husband didn’t do that, the husband simply said “you need to shut your mouth” to a man that was arguing with his wife. It was the author, rather, who escalated things because the husband “would never talk to me like that under any other circumstances. Ever.” So the correct response to that is to put the little man in his place, by implying that when the flight was over he could easily kick the shit out of him?
Bleh. I don’t like any of the people involved in this story.
I don’t know what occurred on the southwest flight and NEITHER DO YOU.
You just know what one writer says happened. From what I’m reading, neither party in this even attempted to de-escalate the situation, and nobody was using any form of nonviolent communication.
As for “white privilege” or “male privilege” or any other types of privilege, yes, it definitely exists and sucks. But escalating a situation in an already tense environment (like air travel is) is NOT the way to solve situations such as these, and never will be.
Moderator note: Everyone please remain calm or I will have to have you return your tray tables and seats to their upright positions.
While I agree with you to some extent:
I am also sensitive to how a situation like this can make some people overly sensitive, seems to me from what the author wrote that there was some racist behavior by the couple in the plane, just not too sure about the captain’s motives though, (there may be details here we don’t know) just seems to me that the captain wanted to settle things as quickly as possible and avoid a he said/she said scenario which would have possibly made things even more complicated.
(You could argue that he felt it was easier to pick on the author cause he’s a minority or because he figured that an entitled white woman was going to be harder to get her to do anything)
Having said that, the captains was rude/probably wrong to handle the situation like this, but it seems to me that Hanlon’s razor (Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.) might apply here.
My intent was not to suggest escalation, but the reality is, which appears
to have been completely ignored, is many situations involving people of
color escalate simply because simple common sense and expected respectful
discourse does not occur. You are right, I do not know what happened
because I was not there, but I can assure you that walking around in this
black skin of mine for well over 6 decades has left several deep emotional
impressions about repetitive interactions with pigment challenged females
and males.
The pilot “choose” to only deal with one party in the incident. My
question, and I am wholly aware that you will not be able to answer this
question is, why didn’t the ‘lady’ move if she was so offended? Why didn’t
her husband offer to exchange seats? People of color must deal with these
types of incidents more than you can imagine, some incidents occur with
lightening quickness, unverbalized but still emotionally potent rejection
that almost always causes some type of response. 1.) response one- exactly
how the situation played out in the words of the author. 2.) The author
decides to do like he has been taught to do his entire life - to say
nothing to internalize the rejection and go on with his life. Needless to
say I have not included the health after effects of racism on people of
color but it happens. 3.) The female - the woman, could acknowledge her
short-sighted and anti-humane response and apologize to someone that was
only offensive because of his color. These “dramas” play out everyday and
unless people who cannot relate to this type of demeaning conduct begins
to accept the idea that such behaviors occur, without trying to minimize
the situation by saying “You weren’t there and neither was I” as a way to,
sorry, whitewash what the author recorded. Would your response to me have
been the same if the write-up of the incident had been through the eyes of
Rachel Maddow or any other person that is accepted as a media personality
or expert and are not pigment challenged? Therein lies a whole other
misunderstandings between people of color and the people that populate and
effect our society and media - they are all, mostly, of the same genetic
ancestry and what they say, even if its about an experience like “stop and
frisk” their words are trusted. Whereas, just as an example, if the exact
same analysis of “stop and frisk” was delivered by Al Sharpton would in
fact be considered less credible by a whole swath of people. My point is -
as a minority, my nerve endings and my responses to being in certain
situations and my responses to those situation are greatly influenced by my
experience. What you may consider a poor response from the young man of
color, in my opinion, does not take into account his lifetime of
experiences. It also doesn’t take into account the woman’s direct
experience with minorities or just how much she has been influenced by our
media. We must start “listening” to one another. We must begin to hear and
understand that racism is very much like the bully syndrome we have begun
to acknowledge exists in our schools and our children. What we feel towards
others is far more potent than what is said and often results in actions,
but what is felt by people, just the whiff of “I don’t need to consider
your feelings because I don’t consider you to be human” is far more
damaging to the soul of an individual.
I hope, by my extremely lengthy response, that you can catch just a glimpse
of my response?
My intent was not to suggest escalation in this situation, but the reality is, which appears to have been completely ignored, is that many situations involving people of color escalate simply because simple common sense and expected respectful discourse does not occur. You are right, I do not know what happened because I was not there, but I can assure you that walking around in this black skin for well over 6 decades has left several deep emotional impressions, scars, about repetitive interactions with a few pigment challenged females and males.
The pilot “choose” to only deal with one party in the incident. My question, and I am wholly aware that you will not be able to answer this question is, why didn’t the ‘lady’ move if she was so offended? Why didn’t her husband offer to change seats? People of color must deal with these types of incidents more than you can imagine, some incidents occur with lightening quickness, unverbalized but still emotionally potent rejection that almost always causes some type of response. 1.) Exactly how the situation played out in the words of the author. Or, 2.) The author reacts and does what he has been taught to do his entire life - to say nothing, to internalize the rejection and go on with his day. I have not included the negative health effects that racism causes to people of color. And finally, 3.) The female - the woman in question, could acknowledge her short-sighted and anti-humane misgivings, apologizes to someone that she considers offensive just because of the color of his skin. These “dramas” play out everyday and unless people, who cannot, will not relate to this type of demeaning conduct begin to acknowledge that these behaviors do occur, without minimizing what was conveyed by saying “You weren’t there and neither was I” as a way to, sorry, whitewash, what the author recorded as his truth. Would your response have been the same if the write-up of the incident had been told through the eyes of say Rachel Maddow or any other person that is accepted as a media personality? Therein lies a whole other can of worms filled with misunderstanding between people of color and the people that dominate government, media and entertainment - they are mostly from the same genetic pool and what they say, even about an experience such as “stop and frisk” even words from a minority viewpoint, well, those words/experiences are largely unchallenged accepted and trusted by a large majority of viewers. Whereas, just as an example, if the exact same analysis of “stop and frisk” was delivered by Al Sharpton, many would consider his observation skewed, somehow less credible than if the same report was ‘read’ by a non-minority. My point is - as a minority, my experiences are questioned and set aside as relevant, therefore my nerve endings and my responses to being in certain situations are greatly influenced/informed by my life experience. What you may consider a poor response from the young man of color, in my opinion, does not take into account his lifetime of experience. It also doesn’t take into account the woman’s direct experience with minorities or just how much she has been influenced by media, relatives, friends, ect. The bottom line is we must start “listening” to one another. We must begin to hear and understand that racism is very much like our society’s current obsession with school house bullies, a crippling emotional assault levied at someone that is considered unacceptable by the bully, at the very least. What we ‘feel’ as human beings is far more potent than what is often said or experienced through the infliction of pain, but what is felt, just that whiff of “I don’t need to consider your feelings because I don’t consider you to be human” is far more damaging to the soul.
I hope, by my extremely lengthy response, that you can catch just a glimpse of the “why” of my response?
To the Moderator: Sincerely, I am not trying to be offensive or derogatory in any way. I am merely trying to define what it means to live in an envelop that is unacceptable to some. To many, I am not worth the dust on their shoes; I am less than invisible.
Why WOULD the lady want to sit next to the guy that called her a liar, was rude, and threatened to beat up her husband?
Come now.
Be realistic. Both parties escalated a situation that they did not need to escalate instead of descalating it, and one person wrote his version of the event. I’m going to approach it skeptically, as many, many times we find out later that it didn’t go down like the person said it did. I’m tired of getting burned by “rushing to the cause” , only to walk it back later.
And as for your minority, I’m a gay bastard atheist son of a single parent living in the south. Don’t tell me I don’t understand what it’s like to be in a minority. I’m not black, but where I’m from, I’m worse than black because in their minds I “chose” to be a faggot. And an atheist. And my mother’s a whore for not remarrying. Trust me. I don’t know exactly where you’re coming from, but I know the direction down the street.
Apreciate the lenghty response 
I apologize if I gave the impression I believe this, that I thought he responded poorly, to be clear, I do believe that the couple was being racist, and I also believe that’s why she didn’t want the author to sit with her.
But while my only point was to say that the Airline was not being deliberately or unconsciously racist, meaning I didn’t believe that the pilot or the airline where being racist, I also realize that I weakened my position when I wrote:
And now that I’ve thought about it some more I’m coming to the conclusion that:
1.- The pilot was not being deliberately racist, not the way that the couple was being deliberately and openly racist.
2.- Except he was totally being racist in the institutionalized sense. I mean, I stand by what I said, I believe the captain just wanted to deal with this with as little hassle as possible, the path of least resistance.
And that’s where the racism is hard to purge, because if the lady was really racist and was egging on her husband to defend her racist position, then, even if we grant that the captain knew this, it was probably going to be near impossible to have the couple back down from their position, certainly not without more raised voices and a phone call, and some letters to the airline, followed by even more phone calls.
If anybody here has worked in customer service before they probably know the type of people I’m talking about, which, from what I read, is what this couple seems to be like.
So yes, if the captain knew that this couple was discriminating against this person, he should have done everything in his power to curb it, I think everybody here can agree with me on this.
But on reflection, it desn’t really matter, the path of least resistance was still to pick on the darker colored skin not because he would have believed that the author was something less then a person, but because of the privileges, real and imagined that the white couple possess.
That lady KNEW she could fight back without much in the way of reprisal because she is white, and her husband backs her up apparently, and she is used to this.
The author KNEW he wasn’t going to get anywhere once he was singled out, he probably hasn’t had much luck in the past with this either.
Its a sort of con-game white get to people play if they so choose isn’t it? Doesn’t have to be true, everybody involved just has to believe its true, or true enough. (Just like a scientific theory, we don’t know if its ultimately true but we can use it to make accurate predictions about reality)
So I take it back, yes, I still believe the pilot was not trying to be racist and yes, the author could have handled himself better and handled this in a smarter manner (which I didn’t mean to say but other people hinted strongly at), but there’s something similar in this situation to saying a woman has to work twice as hard as a man in some fields in order to get half the respect.
Its unfortunately true in real life, but its still not fair.
so if it’s not unsurprising, what’s the surprise?
I thought Southwest only used Chicago’s Midway airport, not O’Hare.
I hate to say it, but I think the guy was a dick looking for a fight. I’m a privileged white guy, and if I acted like this I would be a dick looking for a fight too. He just couldn’t de-escalate, could he?
I don’t buy this. When the “husband” told the author that he needed to shut his mouth, he was attempting to enforce violence (attempting to control someone else’s expression or freedom of body), not to mention the wife’s doing this from the very beginning in trying to make our pigmented author “sit at the back of the bus”.
Yes, it was stupid for the author to imply a well deserved beating post-flight, but he was in no way changing this from a friendly discussion to a violent one. He simply one-upped it, escalated, and one could say won the war of words.
You fly an airline like southwest, you have to face the fact that you may get your little bubble encroached by other passengers due to the free seating arrangement. As an example, I got stuck between a very large man and a very large teenager (and I’m a fairly robust guy myself) on a completely booked flight to Az. We all could have been slow dancing the whole trip for all the physical contact we had, and I’m generally someone who doesn’t like to be touched. I could have gotten bitchy and uptight when I realized that that was the only seat left to me, and demanded that the flight crew address the issue. Instead, I sat my ass down, was entertained by the large man to my right the entire time (who was one of the most humorous guys ever), and shared some tasty non-airline snacks from the teen on my left. Bonus! By the end of the flight, it was like we were all old college buddies.
You can either be an asshole about it, or chill, and you may meet some really interesting/cool people (even if you do have your comfort zone encroached upon).
If the author had been a tall white dude in a business suit, he would still be an asshole, and that is assuming that his version is the literal and complete truth. We don’t even need the other side to see that he is a dick.
While it is mildly obnoxious for a couple with a baby to try and hold an extra seat, and I find people who assume the fact that they deciding to spawn get extra privileges annoying, grow the fuck up. It isn’t worth it. I, a white dude, would have just moved to another seat, accepted that it is going to take 30 seconds longer to exit the plane, and call it a day.
Standing over someone waiting for the seat is just creepy and crazy behavior. Again, he could have been a white dude in a business suit, and he would still be a creepy asshole. Yes, they are being mildly obnoxious because they think that having a child makes them god’s favorite, but it isn’t worth it. When the women didn’t want him sitting there, it was because he was clearly an intimidating creeper. He then quickly moves onto physical threats of violence, raised voices, and in general intimidating asshole behavior over a fucking seat that someone was trying to save for a baby. He even gives you his own internal monologue which more or less is “bigger dude gets to beat the shit out of smaller guy”. Yes dude, you are an asshole, even if we take your version is the literal and whole truth.
Finally, when the pilot comes out, which is where I assume we get “Southwest Airlines is racist”, he wasn’t coming out to fairly resolve the dispute. He isn’t going to take a fucking deposition and decide who has the bestest rights to each seat. He doesn’t fucking care. It isn’t his job to be the judge and solved your unfathomably stupid little tift. No one else on the plane cares either. Your stupid and childish dispute isn’t worth even a split second of anyone’s time. If you are being so loud and obnoxious that the pilot has to come out (and the author admits he is being loud and obnoxious), he is going to treat people who are acting like children over who gets to sit up front like children and essentially tell them to shut up, sit down, and stop being an asshole to the hundred plus other people on the plane. He doesn’t want to hear your side because he doesn’t care. You could be a privileged one percenter, and the pilot is still going to tell you to shut up, sit down, and stop fucking up his schedule.
The lady clearly did not like something about the way I looked—even before we exchanged any words at all.
No, she didn’t like that he was an intimidating asshole intent on fighting a baby over a seat. They were trying to get everyone to pass up the seat, not just this guy personally. She might have been annoying, but she was right in her judgement that he is an intimidating asshole who uses threats of violence and is upset that an airplane isn’t a place where he can kick the crap out of someone. Is she annoying? Sure. Racist? No.
Moreover, the man felt completely comfortable telling me—a grown man, “You need to shut your mouth.” I don’t think it’s possible to see a stranger as a human being and talk to them like that.
And you he felt comfortable threatening to kick the shit out of someone and yelling at someone over a seat. Does he consider them to be humans? I personally feel a lot more comfortable telling a strange to shut up than to threatening to beat them up. Then again, I am not (as much) of an asshole.
White privilege is different than racism. I don’t THINK that the Captain was racist. That said, he at least had a very bad case of white privilege. Southwest Airlines emboldened that privilege by white-washing (see what I did there?) his behavior.
No dude, he had a serious case of “you are fucking the time table of a few thousand people over a dispute so stupid they had to bring the pilot out”. He isn’t a customer relations rep hired for his people skills. He flies planes, and you are screwing up his schedule.
Seriously, just replay this story in your head, only instead pretend it is an obnoxious white guy CEO in a business suit being a dick because he wants to sit closer to the front of the airplane so he can get out 30 seconds faster. Do you still feel offended? No. He sounds like a guy who is used to getting what he wants using physical intimidation, and in this case he was really frustrated that he couldn’t use intimidation to force someone to show him due deference that his size should afford him. He even got what he wanted, the stupid seat, he is just upset that everyone didn’t bow to him in the process. This guy is an asshole, and assholes are all the same color on the inside (kind of a pink color with brown spotting).
Well phrased, well played!
I’m look white so you can ignore this but it did make me wonder what the most effective response would have been. How about when the lady said she didn’t want him sitting next to her he call a flight attendant and, at least loud enough for others to hear but not loud enough to sound like he’s shouting say something like “I’m sorry to bother you with this but for some reason this lady doesn’t want me sitting next to her. To make her more comfortable do you have another seat available?”
If he was lucky the flight attendant might have looked disapprovingly at the lady and then upgraded him to business class?
Guess I’m just being hopeful.
This is Southwest Airlines. “Business class” means “You get to be the first group boarding” onto an airplane where all the seats are the same except the exit rows and the bulkhead seats up front. So no, she can’t upgrade him to business class.
You have only yourself to blame for what happened here.
The seat in question was in the first row of the plane.
