Paul Verhoeven's 'Starship Troopers' still fantastic fun

Seriously? The satire is about as subtle as a pie in the face.

(Which is not a criticism. I love the film too.)

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the film, for starters.

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The exception possibly being the Moon is a Harsh Mistress - multicultural minority colonial population that practices alternate marriages oppressed and economically exploited by absentee authoritarian parent state?

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I always thought the book was mocking these themes, though I do admit that I’m not very familiar with what Heinlein’s political views were.

I liked it. I thought Martin Landau stole the movie personally. I haven’t seen it since I saw it when it came out though and I have not read enough about Wood to know how true it was.
As far as a director / screenwriter goes he had vision and worked within his means to make movies. Some of them have decent stories underneath the lack of budget and lack of acting which makes them fun movies to see.

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I think so too, but I’ve come across a few people who missed it, somehow.

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I’m pretty sure Jodie Whittaker’s first Dr Who episode had some trans-accepting subtext, but that could just be me hearing what I want to hear :wink:

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They seem to be about as confused as the book is.

He described himself as a libertarian for the most part. And does seem to have been a conservative, at least post WWII. And seems to have advocated for some form of authoritarianish government, and not been too fond of striaght democracy. Bought into social darwinism, but was explicitly anti-racist, but was avidly nationalist and anti-communist, but advocated for one world governnent. Seems a little all over the place, but very familiar in certain stripes of the right and alt right these days.

I’ve never dug into it much because I’m not big on his writing. But from what I have read, and summaries out there. He strikes me as the sort of “might makes right”, meritocracy obsessed social libertarian that’s very common on the right. Certainly comes off as fascist adjacent in some ways, or similar to the whole Ayn Rand thing, but with a boner for militarism.

He certainly doesn’t come off like the type who would do satire at all, or satirize fascism. I didnt make it too far into Star Ship Troops, like I Said don’t like Heinlen’s approach much. But it seems to me the assumption of satire of fascism is based on influence from the movie, and the angles of it that are criticising communism. Since that sort of thing is often focused on authoritarian communism.

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Heinlein was being completely unironic, I’m pretty sure.

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Same here. I got to meet Joe Haldeman at Worldcon 2018 San Jose, terrific guy.

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Verhoeven used the same technique of pastiche ads in Robocop. I particularly love the one that’s an ad for goopy sunblock an inch thick because the Earth has lost its ozone layer.

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The ads really make Robocop; I’m sure we quote the ads more than the movie dialogue.

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I’d buy that for a dollar.

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Not to mention the news clips.
Like the one about the retired US president accidentally killed by a malfunctioning SDI weapon.

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Absolutely!
Also personally laughing at misreading that as STD and wondering why I didn’t remember it… :grimacing:

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Oh, Heinlein definitely wrote satire…

But Starship Troopers was explicitly not satire. Heinlein said he wrote it to galvanize young readers against the “red menace”.

His politics shifted radically over his life. He had an early dalliance with Social Credit, a type of centrally-planned economy with several critical flaws that eventually did in its credibility, but is a fascinating example of what happens when theorists almost but don’t quite understand economics.

Which is how we got Heinlein’s second novel, which is much less polished than his later work, but shows of the same sexism and is the actual source of the phrase “an armed society is a polite society” which is often misatributed to Thomas Jefferson. It also presents genetic engineering and selective breeding as a positive thing, sort of an inverse Brave New World.

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That’s how I’ve always seen it. He needed a motivation for a guy joining the military during a time of peace and this was more interesting than just joining for the heck of it.

Looking elsewhere, it seems he had a personal belief that voting should be taken seriously. Sci-Fi is all about What If. So as a way to get people to think what it would take to get serious about voting, this a What If, not a recommendation.

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I agree, there are a whole lot of creepy things in the book. But creepy because of the passage of time has allowed us to move past some of what was normal then, but unacceptable now. Doesn’t make it a bad book. Makes it useful for examining if we have done enough to improve. Same is true for a lot of books (I’m looking at you, Mark Twain).

On a related note, what would have been the public reaction to a pro-fascist book in the 50s given the recentness of fighting WWII fascist? Not elements, or related, but plainly pro-fascist. I’m asking seriously, since I don’t know and figure someone here might know more.

My life mantra:
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This is kinda Deja Vu; as yesterday, I too, rewatched Starship Troopers. (I started with the Roku Channels “Police Academy” and switched the Amazon Prime to find it).

I started reading Heinlein back in '69 and besides “Time Enough for Love”, this was one of my favorite stories. When I first watched the movie, I was not big fan; however, in subsequent viewings, I grew more and more to love the presentation.

I was actually looking up the Tattoo they got online this afternoon.

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