Paypal closes accounts on far-right social network Gab

[zikzak]

Yeah, I think the worst is when people use ideology of any kind as an excuse for inaction. As Derrick Jensen says “The big distinction is between those who do something and those who do nothing”

You don’t need to get into much nuance to figure out that serious action is required from you right now. For example I don’t think there’s any excuse for people not actively opposing fascism. The nuance comes after that though, where myriad questions come up about how best to act, what exactly we mean when we say this or that thing. I’m just saying that those questions are good and should be explored because it will help us act more effectively. But that philosophical musing definitely shouldn’t seen as an adequate substitute for action.

[KathyPartdeux]

Gotcha.

You don’t want to just talk about opposing fascism; you just want to talk about talking about opposing fascism.

[hecep]

[Gab.com’s] post goes on to talk about how important free speech is to Gab and that “…if people can not express themselves through words, they will do so through violence. No one wants that. No one.”

1. That sounds like a threat.
2. Loads in a ready excuse for when Gab.com users resort to violence in the future.
3. Runs smack dab up against Trump’s ‘free speech’ and how that has incited violence.

[ZenAndTipsy]

I thought Liberals (assuming Liberals are Libertairians are the same group)
I also thought Libertertairians were from “the left”.
Please pardon my spelling above if it wrong.

[Melizmatic]

@zikzak

What about good-faith contrarians like me?

What about you?

See, this is the problem here, an obvious failure to communicate.

When people of privilege (or as you say, contrarians, even those professing “good faith”) have these conversations, they tend to seem to think it’s all about them, and how valid their ideas are, philosophically.

When POC, LGBTQ people, immigrants, disabled people, and anyone else who is or has been historically marginalized by TPTB engage in these discussions, we’re generally coming from a position where we have actual “skin in the game;” we’re doing real RISK ASSESSMENT, and the outcome affects our real, 3D lives, often in ways that can be completely detrimental.

It’s not any esoteric ‘thought exercise’ for us, it’s reality…one which seems in serious danger of becoming a dystopian nightmare, if certain factions get their way.

Personally, I’m concerned about actually surviving to see the next presidency; I’m worried about my kid still having clean air to breathe and clean water to drink by the time she’s an adult, even if she’s not “rich.”

I’m worried about her future access to affordable health care and contraception, as well as her being able to maintain her overall autonomy over her own body.

I’m worried that my kid may finish growing up in a world where the rule of law means absolutely nothing, and those in charge don’t even bother with the facade of ‘freedom and justice for all’ any more, because only the very wealthy & powerful have a chance in hell at getting either one.

I live in trepidation of the future facing the next generation, because it seems we are at a dire cross-roads for all of humanity…

So again, when you deign to ask such a self-absorbed question in the face of the immensity of my understandable consternation, (a sentiment which is literally shared by millions of people on the planet) and you ask:

“What about me?”

I can only reply:

What about you?

The better question is:

[Avyctes]

@hecep

if people can not express themselves through words, they will do so through violence

Besides your points it’s also the mother of all non sequitors, like there is no other way to express yourself than through violence. That’s just… ugh.

[LDoBe]

They’re not.

ETA:
Liberalism might be oversimplified into the idea that the government should spend taxpayer money on services for everyone.

Libertarianism is pretty much the idea that the government shouldn’t tax anyone, shouldn’t provide any services, and should stop enforcing any laws besides property rights.

[anon61221983]

@ZenAndTipsy

(assuming Liberals are Libertairians are the same group)

[anon48584343]

@zikzak

Those who feel compelled to always pick a side and commit to it often end up paralyzed by their own zealotry and no longer able to interact with or affect the world.

Sounds pretty fucking spineless to me. Stand up for what you believe. Show your colors and make way.

[anon61221983]

[TobinL]

@hecep

That sounds like a threat.

No, that is a threat.

[Melizmatic]

“Be true. Be brave. Stand. All the rest is darkness.”

[zathras]

@gracchus

The same might be said about Austria’s laws restricting certain political speech. A lot of bigoted fools in your country who are ignorant of history have allowed a far-right party to gain significant power. Given even more power, those crypto-fascists could easily use the laws banning Nazi speech as a precedent to ban speech they disagree with.

Sure they could. They were at 26% at the last elections, and “being in power” has historically never been good for their popularity, so I am not scared yet. To make new laws limiting freedom of speech, they’d need a two-thirds majority, and the European Court of Human Rights could still stop them.
On the other hand, it probably takes less than 50% support for an opinion to make publicly disagreeing with it “controversial”. Three years ago a local supermarket chain started selling halal meat in Vienna and stopped selling it again a few months later because of “too much controversy”. Of course, there are plenty of other places to get halal meat in Vienna, but still…

@KathyPartdeux

It is better to not act out of fear that acting will lead to inaction seems more like a rationalization.

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

@anon48584343

Those who feel compelled to always pick a side and commit to it often end up paralyzed by their own zealotry and no longer able to interact with or affect the world.

Sounds pretty fucking spineless to me. Stand up for what you believe. Show your colors and make way.

I believe in thinking things through before blindly committing to ideology. I believe that some things are obviously and completely wrong, but that nothing is so completely and incontrovertibly right that one should commit to it without entertaining the possibility that one might be wrong about the details. If that’s spineless, so be it, but at least the part of our central nervous system that is located inside the skull is smarter than the part in our spines, and therefore more likely to do the right thing.
(P.S.: just to be clear: nazis = obviously and completely wrong. That is not a “detail”)

[scottslemmons]

One of my unbreakable Twitter rules is that any account that includes a Gab link in their profile gets an immediate mute and block. If possible, if they’re tweeting Nazi shit, I’ll report them, too – not that it ever does any good…

[KathyPartdeux]

So - fascism bad.

Doing something about bad fascism- whoa - let’s not get ahead of ourselves here!

[anon59592690]

@Melizmatic

I live in trepidation of the future facing the next generation, because it seems we are at a dire cross-roads for all of humanity…

So again, when you deign to ask such a self-absorbed question in the face of the immensity of my understandable consternation, (a sentiment which is literally shared by millions of people on the planet) and you ask:

“What about me?”

I can only reply:

What about you?

Went back to re-read this several times.
This should be set to some kickass music.

[zathras]

@KathyPartdeux

So - fascism bad.

Doing something about bad fascism- whoa - let’s not get ahead of ourselves here!

Well if you want to put it that way…

We’re standing at the edge of the precipice. Today we must take a big step forward!

But please, just as I know you’re not actually saying we should jump off the precipice without thinking, read some context of what I was replying to directly, and assume some good faith on my part. There is merit in not being convinced of every little detail, and not lumping everyone who disagrees about those details in with the enemy. And that has nothing to do with general inaction.

[KathyPartdeux]

What do you think should be done?

[anon48584343]

@zathras

I believe in thinking things through before blindly committing to ideology.

In 1964 my father and a friend were walking toward the MLK march in Selma, Ala. They heard and witnessed the sirens, the dogs, the cops and the water trucks and the thousands of marchers that day. On the way my father and his friend walked passed homes flying confederate flags with owners standing in their driveways asking “Are ya’ll with 'em or 'gainst 'em?”.

The answer was “With them of course.” There was no hesitation. No fear. And walked on to the the march in support.

Flash forward to 2018, this is not the time to ride the middle and pontificate like Ents about the details. The time to pick a side is now. Reckoning day. Inaction is inexcusable for all the reasons @Melizmatic mentioned above and much more.

[suavefucker]

@zathras

But please, just as I know you’re not actually saying we should jump off the precipice without thinking, read some context of what I was replying to directly, and assume some good faith on my part. There is merit in not being convinced of every little detail, and not lumping everyone who disagrees about those details in with the enemy. And that has nothing to do with general inaction.

Let’s sleep on it