Ute Happy Washing Ground, Salt Lake City, Utah
Discussions like this always leave me longing for an old Comedy Central program: Tough Crowd, hosted by Colin Quinn.
The premise of the show was that:
1.) panelists of ANY & ALL āidentitiesā were sincerely welcomed
2.) it was accepted as irrefutable that all humans are deeply flawed, yet remain capable of simultaneously displaying the ability to be complete assholes & truly wonderful people
3.) given the above 2 criteria we vow to be as ruthless as possible to ourselves & to each other in pursuit of exceptionally hilarious experiences
To be sure, there are gravely serious matters that must be confronted for societies to survive & prosper. The ability to survive & prosper is MUCH less daunting if we commit to occasionally āgetting over ourselvesā & sharing a laugh.
God that was wonderful T.V.
That cigarette has to go.
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thats funny, the real Wendover Will, still has his cigarette see http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AHryY6oxri4/TjYVpxmDaeI/AAAAAAAAE4M/2yiWjMHaTD4/s1600/ww-full.jpg
how about a penguin?
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āWhere Paddock meet Vine at big Indian signā. I grew up about a mile away from the sign, so the nostalgia factor for me would force me to recuse myself from judgement. I also saw a bonafide, chicken-neck biting geek at the Carthage Fair a couple blocks away. So there.
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You win the Internet this day sir.
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Too soon.
They convey the characterās race by sticking a feather in his hair, giving him pony tails with beads and a big hooked nose, and you donāt see it as a racist caricature?
Itās not the most offensive racist caricature in modern America, but itās still a racist caricatureā¦
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Is there a way that the sign could be changed to not be offensive? Uncle Benās and Aunt Jemima seem to have had their images modernized enough to fend off most (though certainly not all) criticism even though both were unquestionably created with racist stereotypes in mind. Would removing the feather and using contemporary clothing change things? Or is the historic use of Native Americans as props for selling all manner of merchandise in a non-respectful way simply been done too much for there to be a way of featuring a Native American figure in an advertising context?
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Mod note: Stay on topic
You realize youāre backing me up here, right?
Check out Joseās Border Cafeās āauthentic Mexican decorā. The restaurant is purposely built to look dilapidated and poorly keptā¦ at one point the local one had cars up on blocks in weed patches in the front yard. Sloppily mortared brickwork, peeling paint, missing ceiling panels, rusted metal and scarred wood are all an integral part of the decor. Because, you know, theyāre Mexicans. On the few occasions I have entered one of these places, Iāve seen no actual Mexicans in either the management or as customersā¦
Come on people. Guy walks into sign shop. Says, I want a double face Indian sign for my business. Here you go.
Its not making fun of anybody. Knock this logo while your at it.
Way too many folks here with opinions that donāt mean didly.
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Well, you know, whatever you hear, man. Itās all relative.
Whenever I hear somebody say that itās always offensive to make images of certain human features in any context, regardless of whether those features are big lips, hooked noses, long hair, kinky hair, or whatever, I think of how that sounds to a kid. The person speaking is explicitly categorizing those features as bad and shameful when they say itās insulting to portray them. So be ashamed of your hook nose, your black hair. Those things turn people away, we canāt put them on a sign! It has to be a āwhiteā person, who looks goodā¦ not someone who looks like you. All the other Indians are insulted by your appearance!
Since people I love have all those features, and I donāt want them to be ashamed of their appearances, I am OK with advertising media portraying them. Even caricaturing them. I donāt want a world where all the signs only have WASPs on them, or white people spray-painted brown in a token attempt at inclusion. That seems wrong to me, and bad for my family.
But there are lines to be drawn, and we each have to draw our own. Iām OK with Uncle Ben and Indian motorcycles, but I am most definitely not OK with Darky Toothpaste or blackface minstrelsy. Iām OK with this sign, but Iām also more than willing to help put it in a museum instead of on the street if it offends others. Show me the kickstarter and Iāll put in $5 (maybe we can fix the sign museumās roof while weāre at it).
There are certainly lots of racist caricatures that do need to be relegated to the museums and history books. But Iāll be sad when all the signs and caricatures are only of people who look like me, and none of them look like my children, my nieces or nephews.
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You might have a point if you think that this is the first, only, or primary way that kids get exposed to those stereotypes, or that if you think that having kids use or repeat these features used in stereotypes wonāt affect those victimized by those stereotypical depictions. When I was growing up, it was acceptable for people and kids to use slanted eyes and buck teeth to depict Asians. Did seeing these pictures, and being called āChinkā help me take pride in those characteristics? Not so much. Did having the license to incorporate them into my own drawings liberate me? Nope.
To be honest, as someone with no experience in the South, Southwest, or Mexico, those images look more like popular stereotypes of what Louisiana, New Orleans, bayous, and dilapidated French architecture might look like. And if those are from the Northeastern chain of restaurants, it appears thatās actually what theyāre going for, and not Mexican. āJoseā obviously doesnāt fit in with the Cajun interpretation, though.
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Gahā¦ recently, on a school trip with my daughterās school, I had her, and two other kids in my car, one who was African American. On the way back to town, we stopped at a gas station (this was in the south eastern part of the state, a few hours from Atlanta), to gas up and go to the rest room, and I was chatting with the lady running the register. The kids were finished up, and the African American kid was standing next to me. I turned around, and saw a small collection of very racist figures, mammyās and what not, right behind me on sale. I apologized to the kid once we hopped in the car, and I felt bad that I had already paid for the gas and snacksā¦ it was horrible. And the lady was perfectly nice, which somehow makes it worse.
Joseās is actually Mexican/Cajun, so you pegged the racist caricature right off. Personally I do not care for their decor or for their foodā¦ although I love real Mexican and Cajun food.
PS: when my Chinese niece was tiny, she always drew herself and her brother with slanted eyes and everyone else with distorted giant manga eyes.
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I think that what they are saying is the images make those features seem badā¦ and that is connected to a long history of such features being attributed to racist stereotypes.
Itās a caricature. I donāt see it as inherently racist. It doesnāt disparage, make fun of, discriminate or give the impression he is somehow inferior.
Itās all about context. Every single caricature and most fictional characters rely on archetypes and a typical look. Simply being an archetype or caricature doesnāt make it racist.
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