Hey, so if you recognize that people who are actually familiar with trans people tend to know more than you about this, why do you proudly assert that your own ignorance should be respected equivalently? You should listen to people who have lived experience with this stuff rather than assume your uninformed view is inherently valid just because. Too, it’s really profoundly rude to purposefully, explicitly refer to someone using the wrong pronouns.
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This is actually something of a bone of contention between radical feminism and the transgender rights movement. You occasionally hear the argument from radical feminists that transwomen aren’t oppressed the way ciswomen are because they benefited from male privilege as children. (The Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, which prohibits transwomen from attending, is likely the best-known example of this position.)
It’s not just a point of contention between radfems and trans activists, it’s a point of contention between radfems (often called TERFs for trans-exclusive radical feminists) and the main body of modern third wave intersectional feminism (which is pretty much awesome across the board).
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To your two questions: I hope not, and no. Are you implying that that’s your standard for what you consider necessary treatment? That the person would die without it, and that with it all related suffering is guaranteed to be resolved?
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Hm. “Manning released 700,000 documents, by far the largest leak by one person in U.S. history, to all the governments of the world,” vs. “Manning is Chelsea now.”
Yeah, you’re right, the latter is definitely the more important aspect.
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I do agree and you bring up some good points. Unfortunately, I don’t think moving from a medical/psychological to a bureaucratic definition would make it easier for transsexual persons to receive HRT and SRS. Perhaps it increases their overall access to the procedures without having prior medical/psychological “proof” of their dysphoria, but I think it’d relegate SRS to cosmetic surgery. I don’t really know anything about the healthcare system in Argentina, but I’d imagine other forms of cosmetic surgery (breast implants, breast reductions where not otherwise medically necessary, face lifts, nose jobs, etc.) aren’t paid for by the healthcare system, right?
That’s… brilliant! Well, I wish it could be seen that way. But since the initial identification would still be a mental thing, I think they’d say the evidence AGAINST one’s self–identification would be one’s body, thus giving the person a mental disorder all over again. 
Let’s see. No, no, no, an announcement from a controversial public figure of her intended gender transition, no, and no.
Transgender people are not insane, and Manning did not suddenly up and do this. If you’ve followed the story over the last three years you’d know that she had struggled with gender dysphoria mostly her entire life. If I’m not mistaken, her joining the military was part of her attempt at trying to make the feelings go away, but she found as pretty much all trans people do, that the feelings can’t be silenced. But even if she had up and decided to go public with this, so what? Transgender people aren’t insane.
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If the system wasn’t so screwed up that she felt the military would “make a man out of her”, then imagine where she would be now. Imagine if she got the help she needed THEN instead of resorting to increasingly desperate attempts to get out of the military, ending with this scandal.
If Republicans and conservatives want to avoid this type of thing in the future, they need to help people who need help. Instead they bitch and whine about “slackers” and talk about “bootstrapping” and pretend like they’re all as rich as the people that guide the movement.
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Her lawyer
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While muddy may not be the proper term, I’m not ignorant to the plight. Nor do I think that they are wrong, evil, weird, gross etc for pursuing it. I’m just looking at it solely from the standpoint of: Is the state obligated to provide non-essential surgery just because the person would benefit from it?
The questions in my first paragraph were rhetorical…and let’s remember Pfc Manning is in prison. So yes, most surgeries when someone is incarcerated are usually only conducted when deemed medically necc. quality of life is not a consideration. Your deviated septum that keeps you up at night with a severe stuff nose and sinus headaches would not be repaired most likely. Would I love for Chelsea to be happy with what she sees in the mirror? Yes. Do I feel the state is obligated to pay for it? Unsure, but leaning towards no.
How do you know, I don’t have experience with a transgendered person or family member. I never alluded to that I may or may not… I purposely referred to Pfc Manning as he in that paragraph to emphasize the point that she has been/will be viewed as a male while in the military prison system. You must’ve missed where i refer to Manning as she and her for the remainder of the post.
Ultimately I did not assert a position in my post. Just alluded to the fact that I’m leaning towards no strictly as should the state provide the surgery, not if the person deserves to have the reassignment. I’m just posing the questions that immediately pop into my head. You chose to look at the middle paragraph and ignore the rest, where I sympathize with the kid.
So spare me, I was not rude.
Agreed 100%.
If an inmate is suffering from severe depression, and the treatment for depression is anti-depressants and therapy, is the state required to provide that care? The inmate isn’t necessarily going to die from being depressed, although they may attempt to take their own life, but I’m fairly certain that treatment would be considered necessary and provided.
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I understand the angle, and agree, but counseling and pharm. therapy could theoretically also be used to manage the depression, one may have when they don’t believe what they see in the mirror is who they are. There’s no right answer, because it’s a yes/no question which will always leave a set of people out in the dark. If Pfc Manning sought this surgery while still in the military but not incarcerated, it’s a different issue with it’s own set of complexities. However in this scenario I don’t see how it could ever happen. What military doc would ever sign off on it? They’d just twist the counseling sessions to show that there’s mental instability from being in solitary or from the pressure of being the source the leaks etc.
It seems as if you’re approaching this from the position that gender dysphoria is not a disorder in its own right. If one has gender dysphoria, they’re likely depressed because of the dysphoria, meaning the depression is a symptom. Treating the depression doesn’t treat the dysphoria, nor is the depression particularly treatable without treating the underlying condition. Gender dysphoria / Gender Identity Disorder is a specific disorder with its own diagnostic criteria and treatment. Ignoring the treatment for the condition, or pretending the person does not have the condition, merely because it’s inconvenient, wouldn’t be providing the necessary care and would be rather discriminatory.
If Chelsea was still in the military and trying to transition, she would’ve been discharged. As far as I’m aware from some of the former military friends I have who came out while serving, it’s considered to be a sort of defect that makes one unfit for duty.
And regarding the military doctor, a military doctor diagnosed Chelsea with gender identity disorder. I’d hope the next military doctor that’s charged with treating her would provide the necessary treatment for her diagnosis.
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Misgendering is inherently rude in western culture (and probably other cultures as well but I’m not an expert). Try it with cisgender people the next time you’re out and about. People are often severely offended when they’re misgendered.
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Chelsea still is in the military. If she hadn’t leaked documents the circumstances would be different. However the past has occurred. So we look at this from the prism of should tax dollars pay for surgery that if the prisoner were to be free would be elective. Surely you wouldn’t force reassignment surgery on someone who was unsure or still dealing with the realization of the feelings. That being the case, I can’t see how it’s the mandatory treatment course if it may or may not contribute to depressive feelings. Changing one’s sex is a highly involved surgical marathon, just from a liability standpoint it wouldn’t be something they’d bend on. We’re talking about the U.S. Govn’t and Army they don’t tend to negotiate very well, nor are they progressive with gender relations.
As I said before, I wish the world to everyone, If reassignment surgery would be a positive in Manning’s life, go for it. But by being in her position, that isn’t reality for her unless policies change.
