Photos secretly taken of family through window are art, not invasion of privacy: court

You can neither stop who looks in your open windows, nor can your neighbors stop you from standing in yours.

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I wouldn’t be happy about it, but I’d like to think I’d be consistent. Just as I side with the need for search warrants, but wouldn’t by happy if the murderer of my family member was freed due to the “technicality” of the cops lacking one. The laws that protect all of us sometimes protect assholes and asshole behavior too…

I wouldn’t want some creepy guy showing pictures of my kid in their bathing suit at the beach, either. But if it doesn’t break some more specific law (child pornography, stalking, etc.) and the picture was taken without trespassing on my property, through an open window, I’m not sure I’d want a law prohibiting my right to take pictures of things in clear public view as the remedy.

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breaking news, with the right sensors so is any other material commonly used in construction

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Really? That’s exciting breaking news. What sensor will make brick, aluminum, foam, plastic, wood, gypsum, paper, and paint transparent? I’d love to learn about it.

You know what could be fun? A couple of RTL-SDR dongles with shared clocks to get coherent signals, an antenna array, and using naturally occuring cellphone signals for passive radar imaging of the area. This stuff not only gets through walls, but also (unlike wifi) is within the range of the $20 receivers.

Brick, foam, plastic, wood, gypsum, paper, paint - radio frequency waves.

All of them - xrays, (to a degree) acoustic waves, muons, magnetic fields.

The resolution for many will be most likely crap, but certainly more than enough for an art project.

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I think the general answer for some of those concerns will be that “reasonable expectation of privacy” does not apply if the person is able to be heard or seen via “normal” human senses from a public or private space, but does otherwise…

Of course, “normal human abilities” is a bit fuzzy, and the question of how much zoom can a camera have, or boost can a microphone have, before it falls out of that range will be tricky. But… I should NOT be allowed to use, say, a heat sensing device to spy on my neighbors through their walls, or listen to them via parabolic microphone aimed at their house, or snap pictures with a drone over their backyard. Those go beyond normal human abilities/senses, and therefore violate the “reasonable expectation of privacy” rule.

Snapping pictures from the street through an open window, not so much.

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Transparent… I don’t think so. But thanks for trying.

Xrays are high energy short wavelength electromagnetic waves. They are not a sensor. However, if we imagine a very large magnetron on one side of a house and a house sized sheet of unexposed film on the other, you still would not get an image that looks like anything. That is far from transparency.

Nothing else on your list is a sensor either. They are energies which can penetrate a house. You still need a sensor to see something on the other side and all of them would not even resemble a house if such sensors where put in place.

Transparency is relative. You have to have a combination of energy source, material, and energy sensor to even start talking about it with anything resembling accuracy.

None of what I said in a direct reply to you is a sensor, that is true. However, the energies/wavelengths I hinted upon have their corresponding sensors paired to them. In the earlier answer I even supplied an example, an antenna array of coherent receivers, for the sensor - and cellphone towers (or, unspecified but also usable, radio broadcasting towers) as illuminators. For the muon radiation, the space itself is a good source, albeit the integration times are long.

How would you define transparency?

Actually, that’s legal, at least if you move the drone high enough that it isn’t technically in their yard but can see in. There have been a bunch of cases.

Legally, I think it is “transparent to my eyeballs or my ears” or devices that do facsimiles of the same thing. You get into legal questions on the edges of range where you go beyond human ability (zoom, parabolic mics, etc.).

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I’m a bit on the fence on that one, actually, since planes and helicopters have been a reality for years, and as such, is it really reasonable to expect your yard not to be potentially viewed from above? Drones are just a new, cheaper way for the “public” space above your house to be accessed, so… yeah, I can see the logic there.

You can be on the fence but the legal cases so far? The drone operators have won, as far as I know. Drones peeking over fences and directly in higher than ground floor windows. There was one in Seattle last year, as I remember. Yeah, I believe the plane precedent (and helicopter) has been cited as well. I do think they aren’t allowed to have the drones in your yard but how far up your yard legally extends is limited (but I don’t recall the height).

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I should use “Transparency is operating in such a way that it is easy for others to see what actions are performed.” since it completely invalidates all methods you propose for making a house transparent.
But I could also use “the physical property of allowing light to pass through the material without being scattered” I like that too since all of your methods either pass through the house without effecting it as in the case of muons or are scattered to the point of no longer being transparent like your other examples.
I think the simple English definition is enough “allowing light to pass through so that objects behind can be distinctly seen.”
The problem here is that you have decided to argue something pointlessly instead of remaining reasonable. Going off the rails an imagining that when someone says glass is transparent is an opportunity to show you have read a few things and believe you can demonstrate they are wrong… well that’s just trollish behavior. It furthers nothing and means nothing. The issue at hand is one of window glass and how some people think that you and I don’t have the right to photograph what’s visible on the other side of them.

As a drone owner and operator, I pay attention to this stuff a bit.

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But what about in urban areas, with lots of condo buildings, where your neighbour’s window across the street looks directly into your higher floor window?

What cultures? The one I’m in is pretty clear that if you don’t attempt to cover your windows, you are allowing people to look in.

How does the altitude of your window burden me with the responsibility to not look?

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I have a baby one, with a camera, but so far all my videos are blurry ones of family members or dogs running for their lives, ending with a still shot of a tree limb or roof top.

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I believe you meant to quote @zathras on that one :slight_smile:

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You don’t define “easy”. I can look and see. I can rig up a sensor array over a weekend. I can buy a $200 cellphone thermal cam (the $300 sparkfun dev kit is on the way). Where’s the cutoff and why? Unaugmented human senses? Sub-$1000 off-the-shelf tech?

You don’t define “light”. Do you mean the nanometer range accessible to unaugmented human eyes, with angular resolution corresponding to unaugmented human eyes?

…and isn’t it “without affecting it”? English can be a pretty accurate language but you have to use it accordingly.

The muons are actually absorbed/scattered by the house. In a small but distinct amount.

Who defines “reasonable”, how, and why?

Or, given the rapid progress of available technologies (check for homemade phased array radars, for examples of nice proof-of-concepts), it is a forward thinking.

It’s amusing how wavelength-limited can people’s thinking become when it is about visibility. The humble windowglass is for example completely opaque to far-IR thermal cams. And they are now available off the shelf for cheap(ish). So not entirely a too far-off issue.

You sound irritated, may I ask why?

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