But Catholicism! I’m too good to acknowledge that any THEIST might do anything worth praise! I’m so much smarter and less corrupt than them; even if they’re saying things I agree with they MUST be wrong
7 Likes
Did any one say there was a call from Mr. Kettle for Mr. Pot?
1 Like
He said nothing at all about homosexuality, and
“It is not ‘progressive’ to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life. On the other hand, it is also true that we have done little to adequately accompany women in very difficult situations,” who may seek abortions because of rape or extreme poverty.sounds about as unmisogynistic as anyone who’s anti-abortion can possibly be.
7 Likes
I think that you are on to something, though I don’t know how much the confounding variable of political communism generally being overtly, violently, with-state-power, anticlerical factors in. Since they haven’t had an army in some centuries (certainly nothing that was going to do anything about the Warsaw Pact), the Vatican had a pretty strong incentive to cozy up to anybody remotely anti-communist, no matter how they smelled. I suspect that there was some genuine ideological affinity (possibly even grounded in optimism about how neoliberal capitalism was going to work out); but there was also some ‘enemy of my enemy’ logic at work.
On that subject, I’m afraid i don’t know who quot this quip (not me, alas): “In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy and the market economy.”
6 Likes
Golden BULL, dude. We are just that much more mature and grown up than the old-school idol-worshipers, with their wimply little calf…
5 Likes
Nah - you make it sound like the two two extremes are all that exists, except that socialism is now pushing up daisies? Consider - all the old tales of families crammed into small apartments because, no home ownership except for the top 1% of government well-off officials. (Welcome to Murika.)
Crazy long lines for necessary/affordable goods at markets because product production/distribution had failed out. (Welcome to Obamacare.)
Needing official approval to excrete the gummint cheese … (God Bless Murika!)
The .gov all up in your personal, claiming it has the right for our own collective good. (And no place else!)
See? Not diametrically opposed social philosophies at all. Instead, a wonderfully intricate sliding scale of styling privilege and power. Like a battle between Gucci and McQueen for this season’s runway crown. A Rube Goldberg contraption of epic proportion, carrying the wealth to all - and like all such contraptions, it has to start with the marble at the top. Because, leaders!
The contraption itself is a wonder to behold. It’s only the fantasy that gravity miraculously fails at the bottom of the run and that it is somehow powered by perpetual motion (or, in this case, the promise of everlasting life) that always gets us into trouble. Because that’s the nut of it - is there there an endless supply of bread in heaven, or do angels simply not need bread at all? But don’t trouble your pretty little head about it - that’s what leaders are for!
2 Likes
Are you just unhappy to see me, or is that a gigantic chip on your shoulder? It must be especially heavy without the support of much evidence…
Good point.
I thought JPII once apologised for his support of Reagan and suchnot?
1 Like
cited with approval a document written by the bishops of the United States on ministering to people with “homosexual inclination.”
and
Echoing his predecessors, Francis said that ordaining women to the priesthood “is not a question open to discussion.”
I will continue to regard the Catholic Church as both homophobic and misogynistic until they embrace gay marriage and the ordination of women, at the very least.
4 Likes
I couldn’t find the Latin version of this exhortation 
I like this new Pope.
4 Likes
Seems the problem is that Religious people tend to equate their opinions with those of God, and while someone like me doesn’t have a problem agreeing with a true statement, I certainly do not want my agreement used to endorse any other satetement by this pope or any other religious person.
So I’ll best go on ahead having the same opinion, and if other people reach the same conclusion, great for them.
BUT! These are still words. I’ll wait for news of the popes actions to trust that he really believes this.
Ultimately though, if I was going to make any comment on catholicism based on this, it would be that while it is the most internally consistent christian branch it is still wildly inconsistent, and we are only a pope away from a different interpretation of doctrine. Am I the only one who thinks that Ratzinger stepping down was just a PR move?
Anyway, I won’t say that the I agree with the pope, I’ll say that on this he is on to something and hope he will fulfill the expected promise of catholics to be a force for good (even though thats not necessarily his job). I’m glad he is falling in line with modernity.
2 Likes
Pope Francis is coming from a long line of papal economic philosophy which opposes much of both capitalism and socialism. (This I learned from Reddit last night.) Here are two links.
1) Wikipedia
2) A posting from a Catholic blogger entitled “Pope Francis is a Distributist”
The video linked in the blog explains a lot quickly.
I only know what I have read on these links but it makes a lot more sense that the pope’s opinions would be grounded in more than a century of church teaching. The distributist economic philosophy certainly seems to be more consistent with the political actions of the church than either unfettered capitalism or state socialism.
3 Likes
Perhaps the pope should do something about poverty instead of talking about it. A first step in that direction would be for the church to sell its properties and create opportunities for the poor. The next step is for the church to realize from where its wealth came. That not everyone has a big home, electronics, motor vehicles, and access to air travel is not a result of capitalism. That some have a big home, electronics, motor vehicles, and access to air travel is a result of capitalism. Does this pope want all of us to return to the stone ages because some are still there?
Restricting priesthood to males is an antiquated enough notion that it’s completely bizarre by 21st century standards, but I don’t think it falls under any meaningful definition of “misogyny.” And as lame and not-at-all-the-word-of-God and why-are-these-even-in-the-Bible the Epistles are, until Francis convenes a new Council of Nicea to re-edit their dumb holy book, that’s what he’s stuck with. Paul said buttsecks is gross, and arguing with saints is something Jews do, so there you go.
(FWIW, it says something about this Pope that he somehow has me even sorta defending him on the internet. Aside from the art & architecture I don’t give a rat’s ass about the Catholic Church.)
3 Likes
Capitalism has been the most effective means discovered of pulling people out of abject poverty…Christianity is useless at creating food, clothing, and shelter, and only exists as a parasite on an another system.
1 Like
When it comes to funding, there isn’t “The Church,” so much are there are the churches. Most people look at the Vatican and assume that they are a heavily bankrolled top layer of administration for church, but that’s not really accurate. There are a bunch of diocese with their bishops that support themselves through the tithing/donations of their members and make some contribution to the Vatican (Peter’s Pence). But it’s not all that much, so the Vatican has to sell stamps and charges entrance fees to museums to fully support itself. If they gave away the treasures donated to it in the past, they’d not only anger the countries that are proud of those being displayed in the Vatican, but also would cut future income. Some American dioceses could certainly do more to spread wealth around, but they do tend to do a lot of charity work - the dioceses of the US spent more than $2 billion on charity works in 2012.
7 Likes
