Yes. And when he got that evidence, he did change his views, yeah? My whole point there.
Again, given the history here, I understand the skepticism. I do think that we should support attempts at cleaning house. More than those of us who are outside the church looking in, those within the church should support change.
Compared to the previous pope who apparently participated in the cover ups in Germany? But okay. You want more, and that’s understandable.
As for his complete control, when has a Pope ever in any point in history had that. Today, the Vatican can reach nearly all the members easily, but that doesn’t mean he actual has total control. The central administration still depends upon bishops doing their jobs somewhat independently to a fair degree. There are plenty of bishops and priests who are refusing to go along with the changes he’s already made in terms of the tone of the service. The last big sets of changes actually created a splinter group of catholics (after Vatican 2).
Again, entrenched bureaucracy. It won’t change over night. I’d say let’s push for change and support those in the church who are working for change.
Yes, but how about putting pressure that we can where we can? I think this is more critical for catholics to do than for those of us who aren’t in the church.
I happen to agree with this, which I why I think a lot of diocese should be bankrupted and a lot of bishops should be criminally charged where available.
I really try not to be overly cynical in most things, but at this point I’m left with the conclusion that if the Catholic church was interested in preventing this, they’d have done it. I think expecting the exact same people who tolerated and facilitated horrible abuse for decades to do something different at this point is not realistic, unfortunately.
Again, I don’t want to root against action or wish for failure, but I do think we should be realistic about the real chances of self-imposed meaningful reform beyond some speeches.
Yes, he and every young man his age in Nazi Germany was in the Hitlerjugend, since it was compulsory. I’m less concerned with that and more concerned with the fact that he actively covered up cases in Germany as a bishop:
This explains why he stepped down in the first place, I think.
The Catholic church is increailbly slow to change. I bet if you ask any Catholic grandparents, you will still find some who went to Latin masses.
I do think this is a positive step to change and reform and hope it follows through. Unfortunately people who want to abuse others often put themselves in positions to do so. Abuse in protestant churches have a similar rate, and there is a level of protectionism. But the Catholics have had a more systemic problem of protectionism.
The family on my dad’s side were Catholics from Prague and even built a wood church in the middle of a godforsaken part of Texas.
I went to a high school in the Allentown diocese with approximately 450 students. There are SEVEN priests who were assigned there while I was a student who were named in the grand jury report. That’s one creep for every 64 kids.
I was lucky. I’m sure I have friends who were not.
While I agree they should be able to marry. I don’t agree that required abstinence turns people into pedophiles. I have had some long periods of forced abstinence while in a bad marriage. I considered many options and acted on a few. But never did I see a child in any way other than a child. No matter how hard up I was because I’m not broken in that way.
The more likely scenario is that people that are pedophiles gravitate to the clergy because they know they will have access to many children, will have a higher than normal level of trust around these children, and that the church has a history of protecting priests from legal repercussions.
This is true, but still think that requiring abstinence for life is a really big ask. I don’t think its the main reason for the abuses but its one of the factors and would also be a good change that i personally would like to see. Though as you say, likely the main contributing factor has been the Church’s history of protecting criminal behavior.
Access, a culture of obedience, complicit bosses, and the belief among your victims that you have power over their immortal souls and that you speak for an all-powerful, all-knowing deity.
I read the apology. I feel like giving the guy a chance to make good on it before I condemn him. He read the evidence & believed it. He didn’t say “Sorry if somebody feels they were harmed;” rather, he took responsibility. He named the abuse. He talked about the possible causes of the abuse. He expressed deep sorrow for the harm done. He talked about zero tolerance going forward.
As an abuse survivor, this is the kind of apology that might have meant a lot to me. I know it may feel like too little too late – but it’s way more than we’ve ever gotten before. Maybe we can give the survivors a little space to decide whether it’s acceptable. Then we can talk about specific reparations & consequences.
Good point, I guess it is equally plausible that the church builds or attracts pedophiles. I don’t know much about how this deviance develops in people. But whatever it is, marriage is not a silver bullet. Plenty of pedophiles are married.
Regardless, priests and nuns should be able to have relations if they chose to as that is something that many (not all) people need to feel healthy and well.
When he excommunicates a couple hundred kiddie-diddlers and issues a Papal Bull, as opposed to the usual papal bull, requiring that priests who abuse children, nuns, seminarians, and church employees be turned over to civil authorities I will believe he is serious. Sending the Holy Office to clean house would get him extra points.
The way you fix this problem is by calling the police and prosecuting when it happens.
You NEVER go to the administration of the offending organization with something like this – you call the police! Everything that anyone tells you about why you should go to the offending organization instead of the police, is the what enables the crimes to continue. No exceptions!
