I think this is very true. I like Atwood’s assessment because I think humiliation is usually the worst-case scenario a man envisions at the hands of a female potential romantic interest, but ultimately it goes back to feeling worthwhile or not worthwhile. Of course right at this moment in another thread I am arguing that it is this exact same phenomenon that makes people willing to make suicide terror attacks - the alternative is to feel useless - and how the best antidote is social mobility and job prospects so that people won’t feel useless to begin with. The best antidote for being a “Nice Guy” is to find something else that is important to you and do it.
I think we are both right, and it also goes back to that need to be useful. A good friend is a useful thing to be, but, like you say, when the basic need isn’t met we get rage. The idea I was describing - support is the role of the boyfriend, sex is the role of the girlfriend - is explicitly promoted by pick-up artist culture, and appeals to that rage to sell a product (PUAs sell newsletters, books, etc., they are monetizing the rage).
The accepted view is rather quite worse, but mixed with a lot of eyerolls, titters, guffaws, finger-twirling-by-the-head-when-their-backs-are-turned, etc.
An MRA is like an MRE, only the MRE tastes better.
An MRA is like an MRI, only the MRI doesn’t have any problems with attraction.
I agree with you completely that “the perception that these are not manly roles is artificial.” However, it is a perception that is reinforced by the media that people consume, particularly TV shows and movies.
I had a girlfriend who would keep bringing up how great it was that she had found a straight guy who was into those things. It felt like it was at least once a week that she said something to that effect. I never did end up saying what I wanted to say, which was “Perhaps the fact that you’re making such a big deal out of this is a reason why people won’t admit to liking these things.”
An MRA is like an MLA, only with less well-defined notions of citation and comma usage.
An MRA is like an MRR, only neither Maximum nor Rock-and-Roll
An MRA is like an MRT, only not so swift.
An MRA is like an MRD, only prone to shooting from the hip and frequent jamming from poor maintenance.
Depth of a strata is not necessarily quantitative, but its measurement is. I was assuming it was one-dimensional, so any two points we choose would be exclusive.
I have never trusted this sort of thing, it creeps me out as being too impulsive. If I feel any sudden attraction to people, or they to me, I just avoid them. It seems better to me to have a more deliberate system. I much prefer to be with a person because we decide to than as a result of some vague wants or unconscious criteria. But apparently many don’t feel this way.
If it’s one-dimensional, any (and all) two points are the same.
If-and-only-if (IFF) point A cannot be equal to point B. If I have a bag of quarters and you pick out a quarter and I pick out a quarter – we have different quarters, but they are both equal.
This is hardly an obvious assumption – it’s very narrow, non-standard definition of terms.
I said that it would creep me out, not that you were wrong to do it yourself.
When things are important to people, they often apply some systematic rigor to it. I do like some people more than others, but I don’t consider that as the determining factor for most things. It seems more selfish and random to dismiss such decisions, like “My genes have decided to only let certain people through the intersection.” or “A fit of whimsy has determined that group A will get food, while B will not.” Also, modern life has largely decoupled sexual activity from reproduction, so there is no pressing need to use mating criteria. I strive to avoid making most things in my life into “personal problems”, and think that it is at least as important for this to apply to sexuality as other areas.
So hold up a second… (I didn’t think you were condemning me anyway.)
You get uncomfortable or freaked out if you see someone and are sexually attracted to them? I mean, this is how most people wind up in bed together. That’s why people sleep with people that they, later, often turn out not to like. I had one brief relationship like that myself: great in bed but couldn’t stand each other in conversation. After a month, we both quit calling each other.
There might be a gender thing here. My wife thinks it is “really weird” (and has said so more than once) that I slept with so and so when I didn’t even really like her. She’s like “Why did you do that?” and I said, basically, “Have you seen her?! She’s so fucking hot! (and I didn’t find out how weird she was until later)”
If it is a gender thing its a conditioned gender thing.
I’ve slept with men just because they were physically attractive, dumb as a bag of hammers, but oh my so lovely to look at.
I’m actually heartened to hear that because to hear my wife speak of it, I’m a shallow shallow man. (Of course, she married me anyway and we’ve been living together for 12 years and together for 15 so…)
I can certainly imagine wanting to sleep with someone who’s not my super BFF forever, but I can’t imagine sleeping with someone if I actually disliked them. Like, it doesn’t matter which body you put Ann Coulter’s personality in to - I’m not down for that, no how, no way
