Cutting off the limbs of those who are not able to bribe the police or politicians when caught for drunk driving is a more effective deterrent than what we do in our country, no question. It’s a solid deterrent that works at keeping people from drunk driving.
But it’s not justice.
Two points:
It’s actually not an effective deterrent. That was the point I was making earlier.
Obviously it’s not justice. The punishment is vastly in excess of the crime.
Ruining the lives of people who engaged in revenge porn … is certainly an effective deterrent but it’s not justice.
Two more points:
Not sure what the point of your little political detour which I’ve snipped from the quote was. Unless it was to suggest that this whole thing was some sort of political witch-hunt, in which case, please enlighten us with your insider knowledge.
I actually think that ruining the life (or at least something like 10% of their life, with good behaviour) of one person who has ruined the lives (or some non-trivial percentage of their lives) of hundreds or thousands of other people is a fair approximation of justice. In fact, it seems to fit the crime rather appropriately. Do you have any suggestion on why it is unjust, and, as Snowlark mentioned, what punishment you would consider just?
I agree with you that there should be no reason for these women to be ashamed of being sexual beings, and that their bosses are assholes for firing them (and any future bosses who refuse to hire them due to these photos being leaked are also assholes).
Having said that, you can denounce prudery all you want… But it feels like you’re minimizing the seriousness of this crime by saying “Well, it’s not his fault that society is so shitty”.
Well, it’s an effective deterrent against re-offending. Deterrent for other offenders, probably less so.
At this point it sounds like you want us to sentence criminals based on how much damage their crimes would have done in a perfect world, instead of how much damage they actually did do in the world we live in. Like, maybe in the future the penalty for murder will be a fine to cover the victim’s lost productivity during the 24 hours it takes to grow a new clone and restore their neural backup. That would be awesome! I’d love to live in that world!
But now you’re saying “You think murderers should be locked up? What, you don’t think people deserve fast, cheap, accessible resurrection? What kind of monster are you?” You are leaping over several major steps, and as a result your argument doesn’t make any sense.
You are 100% correct that our society’s morals and priorities are kind of fucked up, and it’s entirely reasonable to protest against that. But you chose to frame your protest in terms of defending this one guy for the real and deliberate harm he caused. Maybe you didn’t intend to do that, but that’s very much how it came across; if that wasn’t your intention, you might want to reconsider your phrasing.
I do consider my phrasing very carefully. Of course the topic is “Revenge porn site owner sentenced 18 years”, but if you haven’t noticed, I haven’t discussed the sentence or amount of time at all. It is the main controversy of the topic, apparently, but I don’t have any opinion about these aspects. So it’s fascinating that based upon this, people keep telling me what I think about this, and what I am “really saying”. Sorry, I thought I was fairly unambiguous. Please show me anything that you interpret me as saying that I am defending this guy.
By way of clarification, I simply see the fundamental problem as being different than what others make it out to be. This might be annoying, but IMO there is no sound reason for trying to crowbar what I am saying into the token positions already assumed on this.
The way I see it is more or less tribally, in that the only thing that matters is the health of the society. For example, what changes about this world if I am murdered? Or raped? Or robbed? In practical terms, I would need to admit that hardly anything changes. Nearly everything works the same way as it has done. But me suffering this treatment indicates a problem in how society operates, and how it likely continues to. The practical solutions, as well as the most compassionate ones, are those which address the larger social problem. Personal loss and personal blame exist only as symptoms. Like if I was being treated for cancer and a doctor tells me that one of my cells is having a bad day. Considering those conditions, it would hardly be surprising! This should not be taken as implying that it “doesn’t matter”, it does, but from a different perspective. I am concerned about many social issues, yet I see them as not being fundamentally personal problems.
And that is what makes this verdict and sentencing so important: “how society operates”, until recently, was to ignore these types of crimes against women, or downplay them as “not so bad”. This is a public announcement indicating that victims of this type of crime are valued by society and thus justice will be sought on their behalf.
I for one DGAF about this shitbag getting that punishment. If you’re stupid and immoral enough to be operating and hosting that site which you’re living inside America then I really don’t care what happens to you. Like DPR… I don’t think he should get the scale of punishment he did, but operating SR from your apartment in SF? What a fucking idiot.
If you’re gonna be a criminal, don’t be a dumb one.
You’re right, you haven’t talked about the length of the sentence. But when you say this:
You are coming across as saying “locking this jerk away is a waste of time, because it doesn’t fix society’s problems”. And therein, I think, lies the fundamental problem with your phrasing. You’re basically concern driving trollies the thread, by saying “Sure, this guy is a dick, but what about society’s views on sexuality as a whole? Shouldn’t we be more concerned about that?”
You seem much less interested in understanding my views and opinions as I have stated them to be, than you are in desperately trying to reframe them to fit your understanding of the situation. It would be more honest for you to simply say that you don’t understand or disagree with what I have said, rather than make it out to be something else. What good does this do you, me, or anyone else? My concerns are sincere do not need to fit some pre-approved format to be topical or valid.
Deterrent for other offenders, probably less so.