San Francisco City Hall hears horrifying tales of cops' hostility to cyclists

…up on the sidewalk…

Incidentally, you might want to familiarize yourself with the laws your cyclists are allegedly breaking. In Austin, as in Massachusetts, it’s explicitly legal for cyclists to ride on sidewalks, outside of certain business districts:

City of Austin code states that a person may ride a bicycle on the sidewalk, however sidewalks are slower than streets, and are not always as safe as they seem. Crossing motorists may not expect such fast-moving sidewalk traffic. Ride carefully, checking before crossing streets and driveways. Slow down for pedestrians, and give an audible signal well before passing them.

Remember: sidewalk riding is illegal in certain parts of central Austin. Click here for a map of areas that prohibit sidewalk riding.

Frequently Asked Questions | AustinTexas.gov

I only ride on the sidewalk if it’s deserted, or nearly so, and never for more than a block — I think it’s awkward and rude, if not actually unsafe, to do otherwise — but it is in fact legal.

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A 4-way stop only needs anything special to “work” when there’s more than one vehicle approaching it at about the same time. Exactly the circumstance where a cyclist sees the approaching vehicles on another street, and stops.

The slow-to-a-stoppable-speed-then-proceed thing only applies when a cyclist is the only one going through the intersection at the moment. Just like (wait for it) coming up to a yield sign.

This. Exactly this.

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I have a bit of an odd problem where I live - I stop at stop signs (on my bike) and wait for the traffic to be clear for me to cross. Motorists on the cross street who have the right of way stop for me waiting at the stop sign.

It’s an unclear and unsafe situation - technically I guess I should cross, since I’m supposed to wait until the situation is safe to cross, and they’ve stopped for me, which makes it safe-ish. And sitting there trying to out-polite them means the intersection is blocked for longer, which creates more danger. So typically I grit my teeth and go through the intersection.

But my visibility to the rest of the road is impaired especially if the stopped vehicles are minivans or pickups. What if some douche in a jacked-up F150 with truck nuts decides to cut into the parking lane and pass at blinding speed (which has happened a few times)?

I’ve actually had a cop pull me over in that situation and tell me off for not dismounting my bike to “cross at the crosswalk”. I countered that I was neither in the crosswalk going through the intersection, nor on the sidewalk on either side, but in my own vehicle lane the entire time - motorists wrongly treating me like a pedestrian, doesn’t actually make me into one, so I shouldn’t walk any more than a motorist should get out of his car and push it through the intersection in the equivalent situation. As you may have guessed, trying to talk sense to a cop didn’t do much good.

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This. Exactly this :smile:

Drivers, I get that you’re trying to show support for how you’re liberal and not one of those mean old conservative rednecks and your other car is a Prius and you ride bikes every weekend on the designated bike path and solidarity and everything like that. But you’re fucking up my flow and you’re fucking up everyone else’s flow and when you do that it’s actually more threatening because we have to second-guess what your motives are (do they really see me? are they just dicking around with their phone) and also it forces the is-he-gonna-go?-no-really-go-OK-you’re-not-gonna-go?-Ok-guess-I’ll-go-at-which-point-the-other-party-goes-and-we-almost-hit-each-other-anyway scenario. it’s super annoying. By the time you give me the little hand wave, we could have both been through the intersection.

If you have the right of way: TAKE IT. please.

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SFFD here. Not PD mind you; I work in conjunction with them at times due to my career choice, and I have seen both honest bravery and heroism on their part, and at times poor judgement and, occasionally, acts of criminality. I have to say I appreciate the difficulty of that job and am glad I don’t have to perform those duties myself.

Actually I hold similar feelings when it comes to riding a bike in the city. I do not bike, I drive a truck. When I work I drive a BIG truck. I have seen things happen on the streets of San Francisco that might very well shock some folks…and a few things that would turn the stomach of anyone. Being an EMT for 13 years has made me a more careful driver.

I used to pride myself on my street racing capabilities; now, a little older I’m much more inclined to take it easy on the gas and let the other guy go. I give bikes a wide berth: I would rather bump another motor vehicle than a person on a two wheeled conveyance; vehicles can be fixed much faster and for far less expense than many traumatic injuries.

When Critical Mass traps me (very rarely), I put it in Park and turn up the tunes. I always signal my turns. I don’t freak out if some cyclists skirt the rules: a 2 second stop at every controlled stop sign intersection is not always necessary. I’m a pretty good driver: thankfully haven’t hurt anyone yet. However: word to the wise to every rider, driver and pedestrian in the greater Bay Area…if you take too many chances and are unlucky, unskilled and/or unaware: we will kill you. There are many drivers that will pop your skull like a grape and keep on going…and even kindly ol’ me, if I can’t see you…I can’t avoid you. Please check my mirrors and don’t post up so close before I have to turn…it’s for your own good.

Not all rules can (or should) be followed to the letter of the law; but YOU are responsible for your own safety. Your right of way ends where my bumper begins. Yet, of course you could be the perfect safety conscious paragon of roadway virtue and some malicious asshole runs you down like a snow blind hedgehog…in that case: cover your bases, get witness accounts, hire competent legal advocacy…and do NOT assume the police are there to help YOU. (but being rude to them, even during an emotional and painful episode, can often be counterproductive…)

Be careful out there…

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No, you’re mistaken, they’re not. Most traffic signs were originally put in place without much thought for pedestrians or people on bikes.

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So by “myth,” I don’t mean that it’s falsehood that cyclists break the law. Of course it’s true that some cyclists break the law. But it’s also true that some cyclists obey the law. Some drivers break the law. Some drivers obey the law. Some pedestrians break the law. Some pedestrians obey the law.
The truth is, motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians are all really just human beings getting around by different means, and all three groups break the law, each in their own way. Motorists speed. Cyclists run stop signs. Pedestrians jaywalk.

http://www.bicyclelaw.com/blog/index.cfm/2012/12/5/Confronting-the-Scofflaw-Cyclist

Myth of the Scofflaw Cyclist

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But it is entertaining.

Stop signs were put in to make traffic patterns predictable. Predictability helps reduce accidents including those involving pedestrians and bikes. Regardless of if they were put in place without much through to them, it does help them from getting run over.

Ha you mentioned something - I’m awfully stiff about this particular thing, but I never hand-wave or nod or anything to another road user (pedestrians included) - heard about too many lawsuits.

I just stop and wait patiently. If they don’t figure it out, and they stand still on the side, I take gentle priority and move off.

Besides, I would hate to live with myself having prompted someone to proceed and then suffering some tragic aftermath.

I’m real cool about everything else, but this is one of my things.

I’ve had cops on bikes wave cheerfully at me as they pushed past my stopped bike to cruise through a red. Their time on two wheels may have improved their understanding of the rights of cyclists, but it didn’t seem to be doing much for their understanding of the duties.

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Defending poorly thought out, and outdated planning isn’t very persuasive.

This is a very important point. The equations are not equal.

A car’s body will pulverize the bicyclist’s body. One driver not paying attention (even if the bicyclist is following the rules to a tee) can shatter a bicyclist’s life, and maybe only get a broken windshield or scratched fender. Cautious drivers get super nervous around bicycles; asshole drivers don’t care. Bicycles that break the rules of their road make them both angry.

The streets, its stop signs and its traffic lights were designed for car and truck traffic. This is the reason impatient bicyclists roll through stop signs and jump red lights. In a car, you just have to push on the accelerator to get back up to speed. A car is much wider and much much much less agile.

Make everyone (who can) ride a bike around the city for six months.

I’ve lived in San Francisco for about five years, and my partner has lived here for most of her life. Neither of us can drive; we’re either pedestrians, or riding mass transit.

There are several intersections in San Francisco that I’m usually quite nervous about crossing, that I nevertheless have to cross frequently. One is near my apartment, where a street cuts through the Panhandle, an extension of Golden Gate Park that is popular with dog-walkers, joggers, parents with children in strollers, and recreational cyclists. At least once a week, I see a car make a turn at that intersection and barrel through the crosswalk at speed, driving through a crowd of pedestrians who are running for their lives. There is an intersection downtown near where I used to work, where I saw this happen every day. At least, with the intersection near home, I can go a block out of my way and significantly cut down on the risk.

So as a pedestrian, carefully watching traffic and using designated crosswalks, I’m frequently in fear for my safety from cars. And I’m not even sure if those cars are actually violating traffic laws.

Bicyclists, however, pose no threat to me, and I’ve never been in fear of a cyclist.

I often remember a comment by Lewis Mumford, in The City in History, that one of the many ill effects of automobiles on cities, was that before the automobile, a street connected the two sides of the street, but now, a street separates the two sides. I’d be happy if automobile access to city streets was limited; cyclists and pedestrians can much more easily share streets.

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When Jello Biafra ran for mayor of your fair city, one of the planks in his platform was to ban automobiles from the city limits. This was in the 80s 1979 and I (not being a resident) didn’t hear about it until the 90s. Still, that was the first time I’d ever heard of anyone characterizing our auto dependance as a net negative for a community. quite an eye-opener to me, and I’d been (and remain) a lifelong cyclist.

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Houston is hell for biking. Drivers will try to kill you, and city treats bike paths/lanes as construction sites. Regularly closing them with no optional route provided. Also, it is the hottest swamp on earth.

Didn’t Houston get the worst air quality, highest obesity, and worst traffic awards all in the same couple year span? I’m picturing a very large person in gridlock choking on pollution in hot humid weather eyeballing this bicyclist coming up… :frowning:

People who think they want bicycles to follow the same rules as cars need to do some more thinking. Do you really want us to take up the whole lane all the time when letting you lane split your car to our left makes things smoother for all?

Same for treating stop signs as YIELD signs (please don’t misread this as IGNORE stop signs). If there is no traffic stopped when a bicyclist comes to a 4 way stop, then a bicyclist will be clear of the intersection that much faster, which means that a car who arrives at their stop sign soon thereafter is on their way sooner.

I don’t approve of blowing through stop signs when there is cross traffic already stopped, and to be honest this is the biggest issue: I have to be honest and admit that I have gotten into a habit of sometimes rolling stop signs when I arrived slightly after a driver on my left. That’s still safe because if I’m doing it right I’m still clear of the intersection faster than I would be if I stopped, but it’s not legal and not really defensible under the YIELD rule so I have recently stopped doing that. I’m now completely consistent about always stopping whenever there is cross traffic that stopped before I did, and even erring on the side of stopping when I arrive before cross traffic.

I wish most drivers could understand how their own fears of bicyclists slow things down for them. When I arrive at a stop sign at the same time as a car stopped on my right, or even slightly after, the SF driver will almost ALWAYS wait for me just because they are so shocked to see a bicyclist stopping at a stopsign, despite the fact that they have the right of way. After about 10 seconds of me waving at the car to go ahead, they finally do, but if I had just blown through the stopsign like they expected we both would have been on our way much faster.

Bicyclists need to get serious about zero tolerance for failure to YIELD at stop signs.
We all need to advocate for laws allowing bicyclists to treat stop signs as yield signs, so that nobody has to get their panties in a wad about outlaw bicyclists.

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That is a fucking lairy junction that one, like. Given my 'druthers, I’d approach it in a small tank…

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