Whereas I do not consider solving one social problem as prerequisite for solving another.
Moreover, North American infrastructure is designed around car culture. One can take issue with that and want to change it and I certainly do, but equating the prevalence of automobiles to the scooter menace is at best facile. At the worst it ignores the fact that for many people, particularly the working class, not having an automobile is simply not an option. There is no need for these damnable scooters.
Would that perhaps be “lerve”.
USian here, I really couldn’t say.
Nor do I really conflate these issues. I simply use this comments thread as a platform for my whatabouttery. My criticism of the dominance of automobile culture and all its downsides is not related to scooters at all.
Nevertheless, it raises the general question of the degree to which the supply of “things” that are fully expected to be used dangerously confers responsibility upon those who profit from that supply.
Not being sarcastic when I say that’s refreshingly honest. It’s a common thing for people to do in these threads, but I haven’t seen anyone else own it.
Well, yes, that’s a valid point and one I agree with.
It’s not a cool/uncool issue. That might be true for bicycle or motorcycle users, but the vast majority of scooter users are doing per-use rentals. The scooters don’t come with helmets, and people aren’t going to have their own (because if they had their own, it would be for use with their own vehicles… which they’d be using instead of rental scooters). The dynamics of rental scooters pretty well prevent helmet use.
So… users think, “Hey, I think I’ll try one of these rental scooters over here… but I guess first I’ll just stand and wait 5 to 10 days for the helmet to show up”? It so goes against the dynamics of scooter rentals - as an immediate, unplanned transportation option - as to be almost completely and entirely worthless, and the gesture a joke.
I was trying to figure out how that worked, but the number of people wearing helmets was such a small percentage as to be statistically worthless. They literally could have been a single group that had a collective accident, the numbers are so small. (In fact, I wonder if the dynamics of helmet wearing with rental scooters actually means the people wearing helmets are most likely to be in some organized group… bachelor parties, etc.)
Helmet wearers had only minor head injuries. (Which is to be expected, but again, the sample size was too small to be meaningful.)
I will take the appendage fracture over a major concussion.
A helmet is much less expensive and easier to transport than a scooter.
What is your proposal for including helmets? Using a cable lock to secure a helmet to the scooter, so you can stick your head into a helmet that has been used by countless other people, securing the rider’s head to the scooter? (Yeah, I’m sure THAT won’t cause problems.)
Perhaps mailing a helmet to any user who requests one for a trivial shipping fee like $2, requiring you to check a box that you will use a helmet, and refusing to rent to you unless you check a box saying that you will use a helmet? Oh, wait… they already do all that.
At least consider proposing a class of solution or GTFO.
I’ll get on board with holding the scooter companies liable when gun manufacturers are held liable for shootings, and police unions are held liable for officers who murder civilians.
I trained with and raced road bikes for a long time, which is probably the case for many people here. I started racing in the late 70s. At that time, it was normal to wear helmets during races, but not during most training. The race helmets were not very protective, either.
Anyway, I experienced and witnessed a lot of crashes, but very few head injuries. Mostly, people would mess up their hands, with road rash on the lower back or legs second in frequency.
Clearly, head injuries have a bigger potential for life-changing damage, but seem to occur much less frequently. I would never ride without gloves. The same goes for skateboarding.
Anyway, I wonder if anyone here has enough e-scooter experience to say what the most common types of wipe-out are for them? What little I have seen of them makes me think that getting squished by a car is pretty likely.
Most activities would see safety improved by helmet requirements. There is probably some data point where the graph of injuries prevented vs. the downsides of helmet requirement indicates that helmet use makes enough difference to be worth making it mandatory, or at least strongly encouraged.
There are certainly situations where that would not be the case. And some rare situations where helmet use could make accidents more likely.
It is an interesting subject.
That’s exactly what Onzo do, and it works.
So … GTFO?
The solution I mentioned up the page, which is used for bike rental in my city, is to sell cheap bike helmets from vending machines and convenience stores. The helmets are about five dollars.
Though in bike racing a common failure mode might be to lose traction and slide on a corner, while for other use cases it might involve being cut off by a car and get thrown over it into other traffic.
Is this an anti-scooter post? Or just random common sense safety advice?
I find the anti-scooter sentiment tiresomely predictable, fogey-like, anti-future, and anti fun.
As a frequent Lime user I have to argue for them. They make cool beep-boop noises, are cheap and fun to ride, make it easier and safer to get through parts of the city where you don’t want to linger on foot.
I’m so grateful when I get stuck somewhere late at night and don’t want to get in a car with a stranger or walk through a dangerous neighborhood and I can zip home on something that feels very utopian and leave it next to my doorstep and it is gone in the morning to benefit another user.
I’m frequently frustrated at the luddite-like response which seems stodgy in a way with none of the charm of curmudgeonism and actually violent at worst in which I’ve seen people purposefully destroy them.
The concern and hand wringing around them seems bitter to me.
There, I’ve said my piece.
Yeah the problem is they don’t move away from where they are left. Cluttering and blocking sidewalks EVERYFUCKINGWHERE. Bike/scooter share is nice but when I see four of them sitting on the same non busy corner for 2 weeks before someone finally has fun and hangs them up in a tree there is a problem.
understandable. I tend to see the lime bikes left around uncharged and unmoved more than the scooters where I live. That is annoying and I hope it improves.
I think I feel so strongly because I have been held up walking a couple times at night and riding on a scooter really does feel safer.
That said, riding my own bike is better when I can do that instead.
And helmets are great and important and one saved my dad’s life one time.
Seriously: Is there anybody who’s had a head-smacking, 2-wheel injury who wishes they hadn’t been wearing a helmet?
I’ve been on both sides – from that concussion at age 6 (no helmet, but training wheels!) to a few unexpected get-offs on pushbikes, 750 and 1000cc’s and every time that helmet either would have been useful or was a goddam lifesaver.
But i thought it was better to be helmetless that way your brain could be thrown safely free of your body? or am i confusing helmets and seatbelts?
Many winners of the Darwin Award.
I can’t help but wonder if the lack of a helmet, is an indicator for a higher chance of scooter riding behaviour (e.g. the riding on pavements in the article) that that leads to the serious accident rate. I guess a higher rate of accidents in general would suggest this (if the data is available).
The point is that from a public health perspective, there’s a strong argument to be made that requiring people to wear helmets leads to lots of unforeseen consequences. I appreciate you were saying:
The point is on a personal level you can make a judgement or not about it being a good thing (and I certainly wear a helmet), but if you try to enforce the judgement, then likely it would result in worse outcomes than other far better things to think about, like proper infrastructure.
Even if the pressure is solely social “tut tut, bizarrely hostile to the idea that wearing a helmet is a good thing” still has consequences.
More people cycling is a good thing (for all manner of reasons). We should do everything we can to encourage it, and we should focus our efforts on improving safety through avenues that improve overall outcomes.
That was actually me saying it, not @GulliverFoyle.
