Senator Rand Paul sues US government over NSA spying

boing
42

I wish there were an identity I could grab onto and call my own. My whole family is Democrats, all the way back into history. And I mostly have registered as Dem. But in the last 5 years or so, my entire outlook has shifted away from that designation.

For example, having served in my town’s government, I saw first hand all the waste, graft and junk built into the system. It’s just expected. Not even anything back room & shady. All out in the open in plain view. The favoritism and tribalism are simply built into the system: to favor big business over small. To favor corporations over people. And to favor the rich over the middle class, the middle class over the poor, whites over people of color, and males over females. Simply built into the structure. To change it? Bit by bit, if at all possible. Sure, a good fight. But a tiring fight and a preposterous fight.

And so I started to gradually disassociate from being a Democrat, even though I believe in all the social things Dems typically stand for. There’s a lot that I hate about being a D, such as the ethos that a government program is the usual solution. It’s not, and I’ve seen how it’s not. Nor is a corporate or church solution a solution!!! None of the above.

As a “team” the whole D thing falls flat for me, now. So does the R thing, the L thing, the Green thing and the I thing, if there ever even was an I thing. And then I realized it’s the WHOLE thing that’s disgusting to me. So I’d rather put my energy elsewhere, into shit that matters, like my career, kids and pastimes.

Politicians and politics of all parties will come and go, just like the WWF belt title holder jumping off the top buckle to break other freaks like boys.

1 Like
43

word. I’m “supposed” to be a democrat, too. maybe I would be if they took a stand or actually did something once in… ever. they just skate on a platform of “we aren’t republicans” (when actually the whole party is center-right and has been since they had to contend with the post-Reagan political landscape.) the last dem I voted for bailed out all the bankers and enabled domestic spying and fucking drone attacks? seriously, what. thee. fuck?

2 Likes
44

You should try working for a big corporation.

2 Likes
45

No, the problem really is people who slap their own meaning on the word. I think that this Onion article pretty much sums of the Libertarian Party and people who call themselves libertarian:

It is widely fragmented with wildly different emphasis. If there is another word for describing someone who is a civil and social liberal, but economically veers towards classical liberalism (what we call conservatism now), I don’t know it.

And frankly, it really is the Democrat’s problem. There is a non-trivial sized minority who see red when they hear about NSA domestic spying, the drug war, discrimination against gay folks, and other such social and civil libertarian causes. The Democrats efforts to drive these people into the arms of the Republicans is crazy and stupid. Republicans have been able to tolerate librarians despite them not being American Taliban religious nuts for years, and the Democrats could easily do the same. It would be so easy to cut away the libertarian wing from the Republican party. They are already in open conflict with the American Taliban wing of the party. The one and only thing the Democrats would have to do is toss forward a candidate who isn’t a pro-police state drug warrior. Democrats are going toss in the adamantly pro-police state Hillary in and effectively give Bush his fifth term. I would kill to see a moderate Democrat who is adamantly anti-police state barrel into the primaries.

You know what they say though, wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which one fills up first.

It makes happy to live in a solidly blue state. I don’t have to pick between the evil pro police state candidate and the slightly more evil and bigoted pro police state candidate. My vote literally doesn’t count. I get to toss my symbolic vote into the fire of a third party without any worry that it actually will have even the smallest effect on the outcome of the presidency. Wooohoo. Democracy.

2 Likes
46

Terrible for the political work of the U.S. government.

47

Then they need to buck up and find a new word!

Just because I believe in a smaller footprint for the federal government, lower taxes and a fairly conservative, balanced budget doesn’t mean I’m a Republican. If I were running for office, it would be a grave mistake to call myself that or try to align myself with those people. Yet, Libertarians make this mistake all the time.

Again, it’s not the outsiders, the non-Libertarians who are the problem. The problem is an internal one. The internal conflict of the Libertarian Party needs to be sorted out before they can be taken seriously.

The LSD hippie types who like their guns and small government and marriage equality and free open access to abortion and increased states’ rights need to differentiate themselves from the Murkin Taliban TeaBagger NeoCon Big Business apologists who want to gut all social programs and call themselves Libertarians too. It’s not Democrats who’ve done this, or Republicans. It’s LIBERTARIANS and the goddamn LIBRARIANS GUILD who have done this to themselves!

Burn all books. Librarians are the devil.

1 Like
48

If you are a libertarian leaning politician who doesn’t want to entirely gut the federal government, sure you need to find a new word. If you are a democrat that wants to cleave the Republican party in half and get beaten up a little less badly in next congressional elections, you need to look past labels. There is a very strong anti-police state sentiment right now, and it is strongest in libertarians. The end of the war on pot is in sight, gay rights are taking off, there is a strong anti-military vibe about the place, and a large portion of the population is becoming rabidly anti-police state. These are all hot pro-libertarian issues. The Republican party is ripe for having its guts cleaved open on these issues, but Democrats seem to insist on having nothing to do with libertarians because of economic differences, driving them into the hands of Republicans.

If you want to see this stupidity cranked up to 11, read any anti-drug war article on BoingBoing that originates from Reason, a libertarianish website. The vitriol shown to people looking to be allies is achingly stupid. You don’t have to agree with them on everything, but holy fuck, when you do agree, just suck it up, unite, and you might actually get something done.

In the US, while the Libertarian party is small, the libertarian leaning portion of the population is a pretty sizable minority, and more than enough to swing elections. Pillaging even a portion of the libertarian leaning population of Florida would have lost the election for Bush both times. No dude, this is a problem for Democrats. Libertarians are used to getting nothing and a past history of abject failure isn’t going to stop them now. Democrats are the ones who essentially have to bank on Republicans turning out a scary religious nut of a candidate and winning by default, as Obama did in his second term. They could gut the Republican party right now if they put forward an anti-police state, pro-pot, person who is libertarianish in all things that are not economic.

They won’t. Democrats are going to put forward Hillary and Bush will get his fifth term. Woo-fuckin’-ho.

1 Like
49

Yes, I agree with quite a lot of this. The thing is, you really can’t just put libs in a bag, beyond that desire for max Civil liberty. So, being a pure principle concerning personal freedom, that label might very well include even the Taliban rednecks guys. Because - and only because, we’ll generally agree upon that one principle. I don’t have to like that guy. All I have to do is respect his right to be him., It’s just not a concept that yields a stereotype very well, because the whole point is to NOT stereotype at all. It’s about individual freedom, so, individuals. Happy mutants, actually, lol.

It;s really ironic (and sad) that the Libertarian party can’t seem to pull itself together and really express what it’s about, because I do think most of us agree as to putting those principles first. So, yeah. Now it’s gotten all snarled with the major party entanglements. Because, otherwise, they’d just continue to do stuff like cutting the libs out of public debates and such. It actually was a smart move for Rand and others to snag some of that power by infiltrating their ranks - but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth - like wads of dirty dollars and…nasty men’s cologne. Just…not good. Like - what if you could have a really great gig - do what you love, make great money…only prob is, you have to work with some child molesters. Jaze! What do you do?

And I don’t understand the dems failure to court the libs, either. Dumb on their part… Neither bunch seems to know what to do with the independents. You’d think that word, ‘independent’ pretty much says it all -that we think for ourselves, and we know what we want, and oh, by the way - you guys are not providing any of that consistently. Which is why we remain indie in the first place. They like to pretend to court us…but they don’t, really. All I can figure is, neither bunch understands a darned thing about liberty and civil rights any more. If anything, they are diametrically opposed to that principle, and have demonstrated it, over and over. Both side, multiple ways.

I keep wanting to just walk away from it and not look back. But, the truth is, I DO believe in thuse principles, wholeheartedly. I VALUE that. And I want our legacy to get passed on to our heirs intact! But, other than this lawsuit and various forms of protest, I don’t see them reaching a solution. And I think this thing has already failed. It makes me sad. I love my country and my peeps. I don’t like wars and violence, but anybody messes with either? I’ll happily kick their asses right back to whatever hole they crawled out of! So, if the jerks running and supporting this NSA nonsense showed up on my doorstep? I would do the same with them, and call it an act of patriotism. Hang me, if you want to - but I would not back down on that. They are as evil as bin Laden ever was, and just as despicable.

But…we have a way to deal with them in a more civil way, and that’s the courts. A strong ruling or two out of these federal suits would establish precedents that might just legally hogtie these jerks. We can hope so. And, we can at least try! But for that? It just feels lost. Like watching the world disintegrate around us in slow mo…

50

This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.