Should I "Upgrade" To Windows 10's Sweeping New Intrusiveness?

And Now there’s this:

Unfortunately for privacy advocates, these controls don’t appear to
be sufficient to completely prevent the operating system from going
online and communicating with Microsoft’s servers.
For example, even with Cortana and searching the Web from the Start
menu disabled, opening Start and typing will send a request to
www.bing.com to request a file called threshold.appcache which appears
to contain some Cortana information, even though Cortana is disabled.
The request for this file appears to contain a random machine ID that
persists across reboots.

1 Like

Not to hijack the thread, but serious question: is it even possible to run Windows 10 without an internet connection?

(I’ve been bitten in the past by buying programs with bad DRM such that if you tried to run them while offline they would just accuse you of being a thief and fail to run. Never by an OS though.)

And could it be confined to a sandboxed VM with no network connection, thus enabling it to be safely used for things like office file compatibility and gaming, while using another primary OS for things that you actually want to allow to access the network?

1 Like

I expected to Google this and be like, come on, really?

But this is interesting. It’s a few results down and you have to really refine your search to get beyond offline/download issues. Check this out.

Apparently if you use a Windows Online account with Outlook or one of their other services, your password with that service and the password on your Win 8/10 PC can get out of sync and LOCK YOU THE FUCK OUT.

EDIT: This is the search that got me there.

Way to ask the right question.

2 Likes

And then there’s this bullshit about MS disabling pirated software and unapproved peripherals. No one wants you to play Internet cop, Microsoft.

1 Like

Yes. Bullshit. As in completely not what you said.

1 Like

what @CaptainPedge said, this is only related to apps from the store/xbox much like Steam, etal, all do for software you buy through those venues.

1 Like

Gah this gets into the it is complicated realm.
Well for starters it can’t collect anything useful if you do not link your local pc account to your microsoft account other than pc xyz searched for this app, etc.
Also all the new toys that we want to use, “Cortana, what is my schedule for today?” “Sure Fred let me look that up for you…” requires a certain amount of passive listening to work. Hell how does it search even the local apps menu without having to parse and log the keyboard input for better results over time?

The thing that is marginally eww is putting host resolution for microsoft servers into a .dll which is kinda problematic in approach but with all the pain of people never ever patching and taking the easy way out of just editing the hosts file I can at least sympathize with them for making it hard to dodge the security patches.

This is all the same stuff Apple and Google collect but there was no sturm und drang over that like I have seen over win10 (or I could have been good at filtering it out). But you know if you are using the cloud services, especially the free ones, well that storage space, server time, etc, costs $$$ and they have to make it up someway. I think msft has gone in with Google and Apple in that the OS is a “give away” and the money is in taking their cut out of the app store and cloud services.

Short answer don’t link to a microsoft account and what little they do collect is pretty anonymous.

I have been using it as I came home from work on update day and it said download ready. I like it so far with some minor annoyances about the start menu (steam recent games does not auto expand any more). The whole where the hell did they put that configuration option this time we have had to deal with each OS update so I take that part as a given.

1 Like

I’d be inclined to(unless your specific selection of hardware and software makes this an unacceptable burden) at least ‘windows10-ize’ any Win7 or Win8 systems that are entitled to the free upgrade; but at least for Win7, I’d then roll them back. Doing the update, at least in my limited testing, makes MS accept the license key/BIOS-embedded entitlement as valid for Win10 clean installs thereafter(while merely trying to do a clean install, using a key that was entitled to a free upgrade, doesn’t work).

That keeps your options open for when Win7/Win8 support runs out and it’s either Win10 or the suicidal folly of running without security updates. I’d use drive cloning, rather than trusting the built-in rollback feature; but this is a cheap way to hedge your bets on any licenses you currently own.

Now, as for actually using it; I’d tread more carefully. At very least, no way in hell would I tie my local login to a microsoft account, nor would I ever allow a bitlocker key to be ‘backed up’ for me. Cortana can stay in Halo, where she belongs, and so on. All the privacy-related checkboxes would have to get checked; and then I’d remain wary(Arstechnica has a good piece). I await further testing of this sort of thing; and am going to be doing some myself when I have time.

That said, some of the vague-and-sweeping TOS is not specifically tied to Win10; but to the various ‘cloud’ stuff integrated into it; and there you are unlikely to be comforted by any vendor except the ones that specifically cater to privacy enthusiasts, discuss their (non) knowledge of your encryption keys in great detail, etc.

“OneDrive”, “Cortana”, “Bing”, “Outlook.com”, etc. are all going to be utter privacy screwjobs; but I’d be very, very, surprised if you’d like the TOS for the equivalent cloud-storage, digital-assistant-AI-personality-thing, search engine, and free webmail, from Apple, Google, or most others. ‘Cloud’ TOSes are just all kinds of hostile; and while Win10 brings greater default integration with MS’ online properties, so long as you can avoid those they aren’t intrinsic to the OS; nor are the equivalents built into other OSes going to be any nicer(Siri probably can’t keep a secret; ‘OK Google’ likewise, Gmail very unlikely, and so on.) The same goes for online tracking for ad-network purposes. MS is an active player here; but that applies no matter what OS or browser you are using; and the best you can do is follow the usual defensive advice; but even if you are using Plan9 and Lynx you’d still be potentially at risk.

As for Apple, I’d be wary: I do adore how their threat to implement device encryption that actually works is turning the FBI flack’s face a funny shade of purple; but they are actually even more aggressive than MS when it comes to tying everything to your itunes account(which is usually also tied to a credit card, so you are either doing some fraud or they have a very good idea exactly who you are). They also do a hard-sell to get you to link your local login to the cloud, they have an even more aggressive ‘app store’ adoption(you can still disable the prohibition on unblessed software on OSX, at least for now; but OS updates and the ‘included’ iLife/iWork stuff are app-store only; and they’ve been more successful than MS at shifting 3rd party devs over to the app store).

Google, of course, has relatively few offerings outside of mobile; but is also not too much to be trusted.

Long story short-ish; I’d update your keys, just to keep the option; and see what the reports are about how chatty Win10 is when told to shut up.

If I were to go Win10; I’d entirely avoid contact with any MS ‘cloud’ services. No OneDrive, no Cortana, no bing-search-from-start-menu, no connection between local and MS account, ideally no app store. At that point it might be safe.

If you do want any of those features, though, the news is bad: yes, MS appears to be crazy evil; but you are unlikely to get better terms from Apple or Google or Amazon or Dropbox, on ‘cloud’ stuff. Unless it’s one of the very-specifically-avoids-ever-touching-your-keys-and-only-holds-the-encrypted-blobs vendors; it’s an open book(even if the TOS doesn’t say it, the 3rd-party exception to the 4th amendment is a gaping weakness that is so trivial you must assume it to be routinely exploited).

1 Like

Yeah so so so much this and in a ‘here take my money’ cause I would happily pay a reasonable fee for it if they didn’t mine my data cause doing it myself is a PITA I just don’t want to deal with anymore. But I guess they make more off selling the data than subscriptions. :crying_cat_face:

Hyperbole much? Evil?

It would bother me a lot less if Microsoft was a lot clearer and vocal about what, exactly, they intend. Microsoft hasn’t really answered its critics, and it’s not like the number of concerns are so varied it’s impossible. There are a few specific concerns that are getting a lot of attention, and I think the most relevant is the one where Microsoft policy gives them vague and highly suspect rights to do whatever with information in your computer. Do they really need to focus group this, or can they just come out and say precisely what they mean?

1 Like

Oh thats an understatement to say the least.

Only 2 out of the 5 (or 6?) usability studies I have done for them were not focus groups so they do try. I also think they need to be clearer about what the TOS is for the OS/Local account is vs. TOS for using the online services if you link it to the local account.

1 Like

I’m just waiting for the story to come out that after someone installed win10 and bought a collar and leash from Amazon, dogfood from Costco, and de-wormer from the vet’s site, Cortana suddenly starts yelling at them about how “fido’s unstimulated”. She’ll start whining about how you need to buy a dog psychology app from the app store, and need to go to an Amazon affiliate link to buy toys.

Personal voice assistants are like a perfect target for trying to guilt trip users into buying shit, if the users actually use them.

I can’t believe Siri hasn’t already been co-opted by third party apps to whine about buying credits in candy crush, or extra birds in angry birds or whatever, at random times when it knows the phone is on your person.

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed after 555 days. New replies are no longer allowed.