That’s not what “white privilege” means.
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My ancestor(s) was a slave owner. And he helped lose the american civil war for the south. Then died years later as an insurance salesman (there is no point to this anecdote).
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Do you feel sufficiently guilty?
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I hear you, in that language choice is a significant issue when trying to convince people. Politics is certainly one big proof of that.
I’m part of a group in the U.S. with major life and civil rights violations. One of our biggest problems is that all the language used to discuss our group is highly prejudiced against us. Sound familiar? And one of the things that really bugs us is when we’re told that we’re not allowed to choose our own terms to describe ourselves or our reality. So truly, I get what you’re saying, but those in power shouldn’t have the right to say “we don’t like the terms you use” to sideline the main discussion. I’m not a huge fan of the term “privilege”, but it’s not my call. The term is already in use, well defined, and preferred by the pioneers in the discussion. So it’s not my call to change it because it isn’t the perfect term. It’s good enough. Let’s move on to a more substantial subject instead.
I don’t think we’re too far off from each other in this. It’s a matter of degrees, not true opposition.
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Use it all you want, just don’t be surprised when it backfires on you, and reinforces all the division.
For example, this topic alone is (almost) in the top 20 all year on BBS, just browse /top if you don’t believe me. If you want to pick fights, and boy oh boy do dudes love them a fight, believe me – a discussion of “privilege” is the way.
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…questions?
(Runs away from the flinging tomatoes)
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That this is in the top 20 proves that this is bad somehow?
So, we shouldn’t do things that pick fights because it plays into their hands? Ok. We should use all positive terms that they’ll just ignore because, frankly, they don’t give a shit about this discussion, they just want to pick a fight and live an unexamined life. They’re not going to give a shit either way and they aren’t the ones to win over. We’re not trying to get “white dudes looking for a fight on the Internet” on our side. They’re on their own side with no wish to change. This is about everyone else, including people interested in listening.
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Is rubbernecking at a car wreck considered instructive? Is it really news to anyone that systemic inequity has existed in humanity since the dawn of time, and each and every one of us is born into that, somewhere?
What could you learn from this topic (or the original cartoon, for that matter) about what to actually do about any of this, today? Just yell at each other some more and play who-is-less-privileged bingo?
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Not from the dawn of time. Only from the dawn of civilization. All these things we object to were invented.
History matters.
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I dunno. Ask the people who think racism ended sometime around 1968.
You completely didn’t address my point about who is out there to convince. It isn’t the folks bitching about the word “privilege.”
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Ooh… I am totally gonna get banned. Jeff I really love your work. We actually have several mutual friends. Rant on.
That is the most insane thing I have heard in years. Do you know how economics work? How nepotism works? How cascading poverty works?
As both of us know, for as much as (as a relevant example) Silicon Valley wants to be a meritocricy, it is soo far from that. So don’t insinuate this conversation is ‘rubbernecking’. The privilege problem is here, the privilege problem is now.
Rant off. I hope I am not banned too long. I just strongly disagree with your position.
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Why would he ban you for disagreeing with him?
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Tone. I need to mellow out, haven’t slept in days. @codinghorror I am not sycophantic, and I love your work. But I think your opinion needs some serious error handling.
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Okay, this is official.
No more dog piling on Jeff, it isn’t constructive. I honestly apologize for being part of it.
(Anyone need an xkcd bingo square?)
Stop. Pointing out that a group of people have privilege, isn’t hate. Pointing out statistical data about Jewish Americans isn’t anti-semitism.
albill wondered about the supposed privilege Jewish Americans have, because a family member had to change his name. Well, it’s not as if only Jewish people have changed their names to conform to a society that expects Anglified names, now are they?
Tell me this guy doesn’t have white privilege.
Tell me the light-skinned, blue-eyed man doesn’t walk into the bank or into the job interview without an automatic advantage over POC (perhaps a greater advantage, if it’s a business position since part of the stereotype is “good at business”), despite his real last name being Leibovitz or the possibility that he had ancestors murdered within the past century, for being Jewish.
Yes, there are people who say horrible, anti-semitic things about John Stewart, and he had to change his name to be more “normal”. But if white people living in poverty whose ancestors may have moved here because of the Potato Famine, are supposed to acknowledge their privilege, how are we supposed to take anyone at all seriously when they suggest that an equally white person with a much higher net worth has no privilege because of the Holocaust?
Do people who are, say, 1/4 Lakota but white-passing also get a privilege pass? How about Bosnian-Americans? Armenian Americans, maybe? Or would you simply lump them in with “white”?
Oh god… Oh god yes. Do people understand how easy it makes getting a loan, buying a coffee, getting pulled over, or fighting in court is?
(Oh Jesus Christ, I am going to offend so many people with this, but here it goes…)
When I step into a boardroom I dominate. With a word. When my good friend, a short black dude does the same he has to show he is worth even being there.
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(I am a tad tipsy right now)
They change their name, their accent, their mannerisms, and their dress. And after the ‘initial inspection’ is done, they joke about how they are 1/4 lokata, and show pictures of the latest meet up.
Is that the cruelest observation I have every made in public? Yup. Does that process work for me? Nope (ask me about some of my former employees, we are weirdos).
Edit
My favorite I will just call Fy. Probably aspy, inappropriate as hell, more brilliant than you can believe, and on the list of, " would you go gay for this person?"
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Many, many, too-fucking-many times (in retail FFS!) I had to repeat the exact same thing the female member of staff said because the customer would only listen to the words coming out of a white dude’s mouth.
So. I hear ya.
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It is so painful. And you never want to be that person. But having a paycheck is a big, perverse motivator.
Convince of what? That life is systematically unfair? And has been for the last few thousand years?
I’m asking how to convince people to do something about it, and how to provide specific examples of what to do today, and motivation for doing those things, beyond merely pointing out that nobody has any control over when, how, and where they are born.
We have zero control over our birth. We only have control over our actions. So what actions should we be taking? That’s what is worth discussing, and convincing people about.
I guess the real answer, the same answer to most social problems, is to have children and wait for them to grow up…
… while we wait for these people to die of old age.
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