Snowden and Venezuela: My bizarre experience in the surveillance state

boing
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Apparently Isabel is ignorant of the fate of another whistleblower, Manning. While awaiting trial, he was tortured relentlessly. He is only alive because they hate him so much they want him to suffer the max. Also, they want to deter other whistleblowers.

Some one used the term “oppressive state”. The adjective is redundant. As proof witness the world’s states taking the Empire’s side in this “good versus evil” drama, i.e., a “good state” is an oxymoron.

The irony is: Snowden’s expose surprises no critic of government (anarchist), and converts no statists to anarchists. It only causes the majority of statists discomfort. Some will rationalize an excuse for the NSA so they will not have to see the evil they support. The rest will “forget” the scandal, for the same reason. Meanwhile, the masses support their own destruction with their faith in government.

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Hummm… Exactly how?

If I have to explain it to you again, then you’re either being purposefully obtuse or simply dense.

Yes, I did. Did you?

Yes, but unlike you, I also comprehended it. Then I used critical thinking to back up my argument with it while deflating yours.

I’m saying you know of Venezuela virtually zilch. Zero. Nada.

You’re wallowing in ignorance, son. I back up what I say while you continue to resort to silly trolley games (blind assumptions, quoting me out of context, dodging, moving goal posts, usage of strawmen, etc.)

You’re outmatched and none of your desperate whining is helping your situation, sorry.

The incongruity between the actual result (Snowden going to Venezuela) and the expected result (Snowden going to Finland, Poland, Germany, France…) has nothing to do with the “external factors” (i.e. Snowden cut off of his original “roster” of options). Still, is (as a matter of fact) an irony.

There you go again moving the goal posts again. You’re now backtracking from what you posited in the first place; That it was ironic that Snowden was choosing Venezuela as if it was some plan of his in the first place. He didn’t. You were wrong and backtracking and moving the goalposts doesn’t change that fact.

Perhaps you should learn to be more polite and less rude first.

Quit projecting.

Barely. I have no interest in him.

Figures. Wallowing in ignorance as if it’s something to be proud of… no surprise there…

No, I just didn’t care. We are not discussing the Manning case here.

Figures. Once again, trying to squirm out of the hole you’ve dug yourself in by avoiding relevant facts.

BTW, are you under the impression that there are no torture cases and other kind of HR abuses in Venezuela?

Nope. And, now here you are backtracking once again. You said you didn’t want to discuss it and then you turn around and posit your strawman on the topic. Can’t have it both ways, sorry. You’re not smart enough.

And, while we’re at it, let me introduce to you to the Fallacy Of Extension:

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#straw

Sorry, I’ve had enough of your trite semantic arguments, backtracking, goalpost moving, etc. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think you just like to hear yourself mindlessly argue at this point.

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Like your assumptions about Venezuela?

That’s funny, I’ve provided sources and backup throughout this thread (not assumptions) while you’ve provided nothing but hot air. Quit projecting, son.

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What you seem to forget about this analogy of yours

I provided citations/sources, not analogies. That is quite a difference. You just keep spouting hot air.

the shady category of “neither democracy nor dictatorship” that can be applied to Ecuador, Venezuela or Bolivia)

And applied to the USA. You should try educating yourself more on the United States. It’s run by war profiteers and other corporatists that continually ignore the will of the people.

only disclosed if governments decide to come forward.

Sigh… that doesn’t remind you of anywhere else? Also, that goes against what…

Wait, I’m stopping here. Are you driving trollies me? 7/10

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And you “backed” what you said about Venezuela exactly how? What are your sources on the subject? Sorry, I didn’t see any.

Or are you talking about something else?

Whining? Outmatched? What is this, American Gladiator? I thought this was a serious grown-ups discussion…

For a man calling me “son”, you have a very childish way of putting things…

Where have I said “It’s ironic that Snowden is choosing…”?. Where have I used the word choosing or choice to talk about Snowden going to Venezuela? Please provide an exact quote.

(BTW, that is a Strawman Fallacy, the one you used there: You are distorting my words)

Another example of the Strawman. And also, it sorta looks like an Ad-hominem too.

Squirm out? No, I’m just trying to discuss whether it was ironic the final destination of Edward Snowden. And previously, I was trying to make the point that the author considered that (Edward Snowden destination) was an irony. It was you that overreacted with my comment, and started with this barrage, trying to include subjects I have absolutely no interest in discuss. And also, trying to distort my words.

And I’m still not interested in discussing that. A yes or not would have sufficed. To use your words, quit projecting. You’re the one using the Strawman here (thank you, I already know what fallacies are)

You know, in Venezuela we have a saying: Dime de que presumes, y te diré de que careces (Tell me what you brag about and I’ll tell you what you lack). For a person who brags about how smart it is (terrible personal trend, BTW), you are not actually that smart.

The “silly trolley game” is the one you have been playing sir. You could have discussed this in a friendly manner, but you have chosen (from the beginning) the non-amicable-cocky-rude-jerk-off-kind-of-way. Have at it.

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There you go again with your rudeness. Predictable.

I have read about U.S. history. From your interpretation (or summation, I don’t know what that is) you seem to prefer Howard Zinn, although this is a guess of mine, You should have to clear what sort of trend do you like.

Nope. Not a clue. Tell me (or, to use your words, enlighten me)

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Best boingboing forum-battle yet!

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You haven’t provide any to back up your assertions about Venezuela.

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Do a search on BB for ‘downwind faster than the wind’ if you want to see some epic.

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I did read about half of that, until I felt sufficiently stupid.

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I think that when I moderated that thread, I just did a page search for slurs and skipped reading the whole thing.

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I’ve just excised the bulk of the flamey subthread. Please don’t resurrect it.

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I’ve just excised the bulk of the flamey subthread.

You missed quite a bit of the bulk.

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Flag anything else you feel is out of line for moderator attention.

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Thanks, but you’ll find that I never flag anyone unless it’s obvious spam for products, etc. - I defend myself with words and facts instead (but I see that’s been neutered here in this thread now, while a troll’s posts remain intact). If others want to be weak and flag my posts instead of positing good arguments, then more power to them.

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Neither Maduro’s or Snowden’s purposes really matter. He will be better treated and likely not killed and tortured by Venezuela, unlike by the U.S. or one of its lackeys.

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