I’m transferring $1,018,147,900 in bitcoin right now.
2 Likes
Fortunately(?) “AI” is the new “blockchain”. Although most proposed applications for a blockchain would be more sensibly replaced with a normal database, the advantages of a blockchain is when you need an incorruptible record of something, probably when not all parties trust each other. There’s not many situations where that’s true though.
In general though, Bitcoin is just money, for good or ill. Yes it’s used for illegal uses, but the number one way of shifting value for criminals is the US dollar, and the rest of the world isn’t trying to ban that (yet?). Most of the legal uses for bitcoin are the same as the uses for Paypal, except with the upside of not having to deal with Paypal.
3 Likes
Look, I just needed some pin money.
A guy tries to be discreet and all I get is yatta, yatta, yatta!
New favourite word. Thank you.
2 Likes
I’m late to the party and have other things on my mind, but I wanted to point out m-pesa as a working bank and money replacement tool for the unbanked and underbanked. Not bitcoin, and of course related to “real” money. And still, a working, quite inclusive alternative to the usual system of having to rely on a bank for financing and financial interaction.
The only convincing legitimate use case I’ve ever seen is for a cryptocurrency to be used as an exfiltration vehicle for refugees to get what funds they have out of a truly authoritarian regime (Libertarian whingeing aside, taxation is not tyranny and doesn’t count). Basically something to avoid the Nazi application of this law:
We are looking at right-wing populist regimes in a number of major countries, so this is something to consider. Even so, cryptocurrencies (esp. Bitcoin) would be a very risky way of accomplishing that exfiltration, with a high chance of all the funds being stolen or accidentally rendered inaccessible.
It doesn’t require any cryptocurrency. The other applications of blockchain technology, especially those that don’t require a high velocity of transactions and audits, are extremely interesting and promising.
More effectively, perhaps. More efficiently (in terms of speed of resolution and raw energy inputs), no.
3 Likes
I’ve worked in over a half-dozen positions in banking, including branch manager. Are you interested in being schooled in how banks set fees that specifically target economically disadvantaged customers?
Here’s a fun behind-the-scenes fact, as an example: there are employees whose job it is to go over the fees charged to “good” customers, and reverse them. A bounced check is honored, not charged, and thus the bills get paid without charges heaped on charges. So yes, the fees apply to all, but wealthy customers get those charges back. No harm, no foul.
15 Likes
This seems fine.
It allows lower friction transactions between individuals without the overhead of a large bank and is less suitable for criminal activity than even cash is. If I need to transfer money to another person far away, possibly across international boundaries, it allows that cheaper than western union or banks and is available in more places. Possible legitimate uses include remittances from overseas workers to their families or simply friends. Each of the illegal uses you’ve mentioned are just as true with cash.
It allows sending money without the help of a bank. That opens up cross border transfers for legitimate uses as much as other uses.
Bitcoin is garbage for tax evasion, if we turn resources to tracking it. Each transaction is publicly recorded. Tax it and regulate it like any other polluting terrible commodity.
This betrays a pretty deep misunderstanding of the lived experience of a lot of people. Almost 1/3 of the global population doesn’t have access to some type of banking with that number rising to almost half in developing countries. https://globalfindex.worldbank.org/
I spent a few years unbanked and I can tell you that getting back into the banking system actually took an a pretty huge amount of work. To set the context, I was working a minimum wage job in a neighborhood poorly served by public transit. Technically there was a bank within a reasonable travel distance, but they had a minimum deposit that would have required saving months of my disposable income to open an account. Other banks existed, but traveling to one without a huge starting balance required catching an hourly bus out and back or walking for a similar amount of time. I could cash my check for less than the cost of bus fare nearby. So yeah, I could have worked harder to get a bank, but it was an unreasonable choice. Hiding it under a bridge would have been easier. Mine was one of the easier situations for someone unbanked to get out of, because I faced no additional hurdles like missing paperwork or a much larger geographic gap.
Do you believe that 1/3 of the world’s population is callow, incurious, unmotivated and in a morass of learned helplessness or is it possible that you are missing some structural barrier that exist for people in situations different than yours?
9 Likes
It isn’t the best option, but it is an option that fits the criteria of legal and moral uses. It works best when someone on the other end converts to the standard local currency on the other end, which is usually way less economically volatile and polluting.
I’m thinking bitcoin itself is yet another means of abstracting value, really.
4 Likes
All money is imaginary. Don’t be fooled. Even money backed by goods is imaginary. It’s scrip for barter.
3 Likes
You made it the same. By trading time and work in order to get it.
1 Like
Just noticing something both from this thread and other similar ones. I get that there’s a lot more nuance involved than this, but:
Pro-bitcoin: Normal money is regulated by government! Ergo, normal money bad. (Regulation means control/restriction)
Anti-bitcoin: Normal money is regulated by government! Ergo, bitcoin bad. (Regulation means stability/security)
The money in the bank exists as digital bits and bytes just as it does in a blockchain. For the most part these days, the USD is brought into existence as digital currency rather than banknotes. Both the USD and Bitcoin are, in their own ways, fiat currencies – they’re not backed by commodities, and are worth as much as those using it believe it’s worth.
The fundamental differences you may be trying to get at are that a nation-state’s currency is backed by confidence in said nation-state to back up its value, that there’s an interbank reconciliation system that provides it with a centralised chain of accountability, and that it’s more widely accepted as a standard means of exchange in that country.
There are other advantages enjoyed by a nation-state’s fiat currency as compared to cryptocurrencies as well
4 Likes
Sounds great, thank you.
1 Like
There’s a point near the bottom where that no longer becomes true.
And I hope you never have to experience that for yourself, but please do take it to heart. 
6 Likes
America’s unbanked poor may not be flocking to Bitcoin, but they probably will flock to Facebook’s Libra cryptocurrency. American legislators and the Treasury both understand this, and are rushing to make sure it’s regulated (they’re also talking about other cryptocurrencies meeting regulatory compliance, but Libra lit a fire under them).
Before you say “but no-one would be foolish and irresponsible enough to use a crappy company like Facebook as a banking and exchange system”, consider that you’ve already displayed a lot of privilege-blindness in this topic concerning people who are more limited in their options.
8 Likes
How much would Greenland cost?
1 Like
Bitcoin is used to store and transfer value. You are obviously predisposed to negative uses. But if you would consider positive aspects, one of the greatest aspects of Bitcoin is just comparing it’s deflationary aspects to USD’s inflationary. Compared to U.S. dollars I think even with new supply still be generated, bitcoin is becoming scarcer.
When you own some bitcoin, unlike owning dollars of the U.S. Federal Reserve (a non-government private bank), the scarcity your bitcoin will increase & availability of other bitcoin will decrease over the long term, and even in the short term the increased “printing” of bitcoin is much less than the increase in printing of the U.S. Dollar.
Compare the increase of the U.S. money supply each year, the M2, with a growth at over 5% vs. Bitcoin’s current growth at under 4%.
Just on scarcity alone, bitcoin is useful to store value better. It stores a value. It’s use is culturally determined but it’s currently used for many things other than “illegal activity.” Just like others have pointed out, just like cash, the value of the commodity can be used for whatever two parties agree upon.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply#Projected_Bitcoins_Short_Term
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply_growth
