Sophie McDougall brilliantly explains the problem with “Strong Female Characters”

As an aside, the RDJ Sherlock films made me want to punch the screen (I am a jeremy brett fanboi at heart), but Jared Harris killed it. His patience, gravitas, and drip-by-drip delivery was so satisfying. Talk about a person that can command a scene.

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Maggie Smith, Helen Miran, and Dame Judy Dench say hello :smile:

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BTW, did you know if you google image search “Blackadder Elizabeth” you get a series of wonderful paintings from Elizabeth Blackadder?

Anyways, a few more older actors that could beat me at word-wrestling.

Of course there are a hundred times more examples of men. And really pop that is the problem I think you are alluding to.

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I agree that you don’t need the female character to be aggressive to play a strong role model. But this seems to be the only way the Hollywood sees them. Lets have a look at Aliens, Vasquez played the stereotypical macho woman, but that was her way of fitting into a primarily male dominated profession by being more manly than the men. Ripley’s primary motivation is as a mother, but Hollywood stuffs her into the badass mold alongside Vasquez and then compounds that in the following two sequels.
My favourite portrayal of a strong woman was Mara of the Acoma in the Empire series by Janny Wurts and Raymond Fiest. In a world that is overwhelmingly male dominated she succeeds without needing to personally kick ass.

I agree wholeheartedly with you but if I think of some of my favourite movies OVERALL where the lead character just kicked ass, plain and simple, they are all female characters. Sigourney Weaver?? Alien? Aliens? Juliette Lewis in Natural Born Killers? Anne Parillaud in La Femme Nikita? Audrey Tatou in Amelie? Faye Dunaway in “Network”? Marion Cotillard in The Dark Knight Rises? Whoopi Goldberg in The Color Purple. Uma Thurman in both episodes of “Kill Bill”? I think the common tthing that resonates with me throughout all of those films, is we get to see the breaking point of all the characters and then see the development of resolve, determination and finally strength, honestly portrayed.

and how do we forget EVERY female lead in EVERY Coen Brothers film?? Frances McDormand? Marcia Gay Harden? Holly Hunt? Judy Davis? Tilda Swinton? Julianne Moore? Kelly Macdonald in “No Country For Old Men”??? Kudos to the writers, directors and producers of films that don’t really have to think about it…

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Don’t forget Quentin Tarantino…

Oh, wait! Never mind.

The scene in Gosford Park at the very beginning where Kelly opens the martini shaker for Maggie is so emotionally compelling yet telling for the rest of the story.

Less than 1%. Mostly art films nobody watches…

Hell yes! Kaylee has to be one of my favourite female characters ever: She’s quirky, ingenious, awkward, fiercely protective of her ship, affectionate… She doesn’t need to have fistfuls of guns and constant smack talk to be a strong presence; she’s just a fun, interesting person.

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And Dame Joan Collins. That’s four. Let’s see how many men that stacks up against.

30 Rock brought this up, when Jenna goes to an audition and finds out she’s being cast as the mother (who dies of old age) instead of the daughter.

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Oh, literally a hundred to one, older men to women in film. If not worse.

I was actually reading a magazine where Natalie Dormer says she isn’t going to take any more queen/fatale roles after GoT since usually the parts are just so tiresome.

I thought she was, the arranged marriage for Aragorn, but she only shows up when the Hobbitts arrive in Rivendell and then at the end, when it’s marriage time. she doesn’t have to decide to marry Aragorn, it’s already been arranged.

It is one of those appendix mentions. She did love Aragorn and gave up her immortality for him which ties in with Aragorn telling of Beren and Luthien while travelling to Rivendell with the hobbits. Also Arwen giving up her place on the ship to the Grey Havens is how Frodo was able to go. Peter Jackson decided to weave it into the main narrative for the movies.

Oh, I know she was technically a character in the books. Just not much of one.

Heh, this is where the Fans disagree with the Viewers. It is an endless hole. For this specific incident can we agree the portrayal of woman is lacking but not intential removal from the source material (eve though the in silmarillian it just want there)?

Agreed. LOTR is a real sausagefest if you ask me, and I think Jackson attempted to inject some women into the story, which on principle, I agree with. I do think he attempted to stay within the spirit of the stories, as @TobinL indicates in the comment above yours to me.

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where something is produced doesn’t really have a lot to do with the people who are producing it. It is more to do with the costs of producing in California. The creatives involved in the production are often still the same people who would have done it down here if it wasn’t so expensive. A show like Once Upon a Time that has what I would say a good mix of strong female and male characters and the people running the show are from Wisconsin and Iowa while a good number of the cast is from the US as well.

To be specific though, it was sausages, tomatoes, and niiice crispy bacon.

Put it out you fools, put it out!

(Enter nazgul)