Stephen Hawking's final words to the internet: robots aren't the problem, capitalism is

[Entity447B]

@Loudoun_Hillbilly

For my purposes, “socialism” in its modern, non-communist, non-gulag form to me is pre-Thatcher Britain, circa 1969-1978. Strikes everywhere, depressed economy, general malaise and economic misery.

If I define capitalism to mean the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, the Bhopal disaster, company stores, etc. etc. it’s going to look pretty bad as well.

[Loudoun_Hillbilly]

Fair point.

[generic_name]

There’s definitely a spectrum, and nobody seems to agree on an exact definition, particularly in the USA. There’s good socialism and bad socialism, just like good capitalism and bad capitalism. I’d say the problems of the Soviet Union were less about public ownership of the means of production and all about paranoia, graft, and all the same totalitarian traits you’d find in any right wing dictatorship. Compare Salvador Allende with Augusto Pinochet for more insight, neither had a smoothly running economy, but it wasn’t the socialist that had his political foes thrown out of helicopters.

Do you have a solution to the problem Hawking is addressing here, automation taking away jobs and accumulating wealth with those who resist public redistribution? If the public voted overwhelmingly for tax reform that brought about that redistribution, would that be “communism” or “democracy”?

[Loudoun_Hillbilly]

Wait, what does my mother in law have to do with this?

[anon62577920]

@Loudoun_Hillbilly

No doubt, capitalism is deeply flawed leads to negative outcomes, and has created inequality. Hands down it is the worst system possible for the conduct of human financial affairs…

except for all the others.

wrong, democratic socialism, as seen in Denmark, Norway, Sweden etc is proven to be superior. Spreading this meme spreads capitalism (which is bad)

[smulder]

@wait_really

Fuck Malthus

[fnordius]

I for one think Professor Hawking was hoping we take the Culture as our role model. A socialism of Drones doing the wrk, Minds doing the work of money, and humans left to participate as they want, as necessities are handled.

[csilvest]

@57Lh7m5gq2f04iR

Not just that, but capitalists have conditioned people to the point where they literally cannot imagine a world that isn’t ruled by capital.

Agreed. But I fear the only way out of this violent, eat-the-rich revolution. Or is there a gentler way out? Maybe that conditioning prevents me from thinking of one.

@Medievalist

A well regulated capitalism is the most efficient and scalable resource distribution method known to man. Every other economic system breaks down before it reaches global scale.

I agree. Or I’m conditioned to agree.

What I’d like to see is the efficiency and scalable resource distribution be a little less a race to the bottom, extract every last gram of every last resource, leaving the planet a slowly cooling wasteland while we rocket off to repeat the process on Mars. Less “grow or die”. A view past the next quarter report.

I realize now this is probably what you meant by “well regulated” capitalism. I kinda lost my mind at that phrase. Something related to a 2nd Amendment and a curious comma.

BTW, thanks to all the boys & girls & etc. for the discussion. This is why I come to BB as my second site each evening. /reddit/r/funny is much needed mind bleach, then here for some smart reading.

[gatto]

@armozel

It’s sad that there’s conservatives trying to use the life of Hawking as an example of “by your bootstraps” living when in point of fact in various biographies

it made me so angry when an interview with a friend of his centered around his “willpower” as the reason he lived so long.

as if every other person with his condition died because they were just not strong enough people.

he himself credited the british socialized medical system and worked to stop it’s dismantlement.

yes. being able to keep yourself busy and productive helps when you’re ill ( if you’re able to. ) but saying survival is a matter of personality is wretchedly wrong headed.

[Daaksyde]

@57Lh7m5gq2f04iR

Don’t just take Hawking’s word for it because he’s a “smart guy,” read up, analyze, talk about it. I’m not a socialist because Albert Einstein told me to, I’m a socialist because I took a critical look at the options and decided that it’s the only feasible system that isn’t inherently barbaric.

Copied to my quote wall. Thanks for that.

@Loudoun_Hillbilly

But humanity as a whole? The mold was cast early, and has yet to be broken. People change, societies change. But human nature is as immutable as pi, Euler’s constant, and c.

I’d like to be more optimistic, and I’ll be enough so to say that I don’t believe it’s as immutable as pi or c, but my general experience does indicate that you’re right that there’s a fundamental human nature that is cross-cultural and that we’re more or less stuck with for now and the forseeable future. Change may come eventually, but for now, we’re all naked apes at the core. Our cultures and individual backgrounds layer on top of that, but there’s a foundation that peeks through. It’s not a bad thing entirely though, all the love and compassion and cooperation comes from the same core as the violence, selfishness, and greed. It’s what we make of it that matters.

[wait_really]

Thanks, I’ll let my error flap in the wind. It’s finals week so my brain is a lil scrambled at the moment

Point still stands on Malthus, tho. Fuck him. And fuck Hobbes too, just not the one I grew up with.

[Medievalist]

@anon62577920

democratic socialism, as seen in Denmark, Norway, Sweden etc is proven to be superior. Spreading this meme spreads capitalism

Capitalism is an economic system. Democratic Socialism is a political system. Denmark, Norway, and Sweden are all capitalist economies; they permit inheritance of wealth and the means of production are not nationalized.

They aren’t laissez faire capitalisms, though - markets and production are heavily regulated for the collective good. A socialist political system typically has that effect on a capitalist economic system.

In the era between FDR and Reagan the USA was a socialist capitalism.

[anon62577920]

Thanks for the very semantic reply, it really adds to the discussion

[Medievalist]

It’s an annoyance to me that Internet public discussions often devolve into knee-jerk recitation of memes that are nearly always counterfactual.

I dream that some kid out there, reading this, said “what? Capitalism isn’t a political system? My schoolteacher said it was - I’m going to go look that up!”

[anon62577920]

Cool, thanks for explaining at me more.

[fnordius]

Democratic socialism is a mix of political and economic systems: it uses a governing body to curb the economic excesses of capitalism. Or to use a faulty metaphor, capitalism is football, socialism the rulebook that keeps it from being an anarchic free-for-all.