No problem. She is blonde, and batshit insane looking, so I can see why you confused her for a fox news employee.
2 Likes
The main church in Ireland claimed before the recent referendum here that they were worried that they would have forced to perform same sex marriages and therefore they might have to pull out of performing legal marriages at all. Normally the couple go sign the register out the back as priests usually are marriage registrars also.
Once the equality ref passed not a squeak out of them. They donât want to stop one of their only regular sources of business (funerals being another obviously) as nobody really turns up any more.
Of course it was a complete red herring as they only register marriages as part of their religious ceremony anyway. Nobody could, or should, force them to perform a religious ceremony in a non bigoted fashion. Religious bigotry is absolutely sacrosanct. So it just doesnât come up. Much like its a dumb argument in the U.S. I imagine.
1 Like
They donât ever seem to worry that their pastor will be arrested for refusing to marry mass murderers or those guys in the white pointy Christian hats.
2 Likes
Speaking as a science-fiction fan, Iâm interested in claims of telepathy. Itâs amazing how the people here know more about whatâs inside the minds of conservatives than the conservatives do.
âI can go through a human life in an hour and know more about it than the man or woman whoâs living it.ââJames H. Schmitz in âResident Witchâ
The claim that religious organizations will soon be forced to perform gay weddings is indeed preposterous. There was a court case last year about whether the legality of something means that people can be compelled to participate against their religious principles. The religious people won.
In other words, last yearâs Hobby Lobby decision rescued you from being totalitarians.
I too would love to see a politician push for a ban on divorce (âtil death do you partâ should be literal, right?) or for adultery to be punished as the Bible states it should be punished (death, as per Leviticus, just like cursing your parents.)
Iâm much more scared of people who actually think that I should be tortured (for all eternity, no less), than I am of God, should He exist after all, to judge me worthy of such torture just because I didnât believe in Him.
The belief that I deserve eternal torture in hell is basically beyond my capacity for religious tolerance. I am not convinced that such people are fit to form part of a civilized society. And thatâs plenty of reason to get all bent out of shape.
That said, I get along fine with most religious people, and I have yet to meet someone in person who is prepared to defend the belief that I deserve to be tortured forever. So far, Iâve met only two kinds of believers:
-
People who do not believe that God will torture people just for not holding the right beliefs. Note that this category includes every single Catholic Iâve talked to here in Austria.
-
People who at first will state that unbelievers will be punished by eternal torment in Hell. Iâve arrived at this point a few times in conversations, so I went on the attack and, basically, explained to them that by saying that âGod punishes unbelievers by eternal torment in Hellâ, they are essentially saying that they themselves (as they believe in and love God) think itâs a good idea to torture me (because Iâm an unbeliever).
And, good news: so far every single one of the people I challenged in this way backed down, because they were in fact civilized people who did not want me tortured. They will usually decide that in the end, only God decides who roasts in Hell and decide that he might not want to torture me at all, because torturing me is not nice and God is.
So, from the above, you can see that I, for one, donât assume that. But the context above was that @grumblebum was baffled by atheists loudly objecting to that belief on those occasions where it was stated. So the discussion was not about how many of those sorry creatures there are and whether they are at all representative of Christianity as a whole, but whether atheists should âget bent all out of shapeâ over that attitude or just tolerate it.
Does that apply to the âatheists roast in hellâ situation? Atheists are convinced God doesnât exist. But I, as an atheist, am pretty much convinced that Christians do exist, and that they are a much more powerful group than us atheists, and that they have a history of oppressing atheists.
Slavery of African Americans doesnât exist either (in this century), so if a white racist says slavery is a good thing it shouldnât have a âmeaning in the concrete senseâ for black people, either. But a member of a privileged group telling a member of a less-privileged and/or smaller social group that itâs a good idea to enslave them/torture them for eternity/whatever, does have a concrete meaning.
I think itâs perfectly fine to tell someone what I believe in when they tell me what they believe in. Iâll be sure to make my phrasing and tone of voice non-offensive, so that itâs obvious that my information is given in the same spirit. I agree that itâs not always polite to state your religious [non-]beliefs when others werenât asking for it. However, calling someone an asshole for that is totally unwarranted and over the top - if someone tells me, unasked, that they are Christian, I donât think of them as assholes for that either. Even people actively proselytizing donât rank lower than âannoying personâ. Donât ever call someone an asshole just for stating his beliefs, unless those beliefs themselves really make him an asshole.
EDIT: fixed a quote that I wrongly attributed to @anon67050589. No idea where I misclicked to make that happen, sorry.
4 Likes
Thanks! Thatâs an interesting read.
Ding, merit badge and achievement unlocked.
2 Likes
I completely agree. I am agnostic but I have Christian friends who are very much against homophobia and very irritated with other Christians insisting on taking the Bible absolutely literally wherever it is convenient to use as an excuse for their prejudice.
In fact I have one particular friend, who was raised Catholic who responds exactly like the woman in the GIF. But with more yelling and frustration and ânooooooo. why. just stop. arrrgghhâ.
1 Like
Christianity generally has a few themes in common among all its denominations. A huge one, as big as the literal reading of the Bible, is summarized in one word: faith.
Through faith, huge swathes are cut through science and reasoning. Faith allows Christians an out from every argument. Faith absolves them of inconsistencies and tangled justification for how some bible passages apply to some people but not others. Faith allows them not to have to think when the going gets tough.
Which I am fully anticipating in your next replyâŚ
Thank GOD the Christians arenât making the rules for everybody.
4 Likes
That wasnât me, for the record, so Iâm not the right one to answer your question.
I think they âextrapolate to being forcedâ because they are childish. Seriously. They want to be the rule-makers. But they realized they arenât, and because of that fact, they are outward-turned towards the world. As outwardly turned, they draw contrasts between their literalist interpretations of a single text and use it to attempt to wield influence on society in order to remake it more to their liking.
If youâve studied child development, youâd realize this is a precise analog to early adolescent behavior. The world is not how I prefer it; therefore I will kick and scream until it is.
2 Likes
Sorry, no idea which wrong button I clicked so that that quote was mis-attributed. Fixed now.
1 Like
Iâm in Houston and hear this kind of stuff all the time. I donât care that I hear it, not on that level of this offends me.. Iâm not offended. What happens is that when somebody pulls out the God card, itâs a conversation stopper. What do you say when someone says, God will provide? Whatâs the response? Yes he will? Then what do you talk about? Itâs an absurd turn of conversation. What do Christians talk about?
My son is doing poorly in math this semester.
Well, God will provide.
Yes, He will.
Yup.
Is that it? Do we quote Bible verses back and forth now? Do we shoot aphorisms at each other? Do we try to out-faith each other?
Thatâs the hard part about conversing here. The religion is just under the surface and you never know when someone is going to dismiss the entire conversation with a sweep of the Bible. Have to choose friends wisely hereâŚ
7 Likes
How did the English language settle on those words, with three different suffixes, to mean the same general thing (with different target groups)? Iâve been thinking about this for a while since I discovered that one of my relatives was homophobic in the psychological sense of the word: sheâs afraid of lesbians in the same way some people are afraid of dentists or clowns or speaking in public.
1 Like
You do realize there are also gay men, yes?
1 Like
Oh⌠maybe three-quarters of what has fallen out of their mouths in the last few days could be some indication of whatâs currently on their minds, right?
3 Likes
Well, thatâs the point - they never would. Too many bathroom stalls that have yet to be exploredâŚ
I like to think Iâm a âwell-meaning Christian.â And admittedly I probably wouldnât say I would pray for someone of a different faith, as that seems a bit tacky at least; Iâd just do it privately, as you say.
But no, in fact, I wouldnât shit a brick in response to most of those. The cat-sacrifice one, yes, for obvious reasons, but the rest? Iâd be a bit surprised and taken aback, but if it seemed like they were sincere in their desire to help, Iâd let it pass and accept it as a well-meaning gesture at least. (And I know enough pagans that I wouldnât even be surprised by the âspells and summoningâ one, assuming it was worded slightly less oddly.)
