For me that means keeping up with the academic / industrial programs and talks, showing up for conferences in my field, shelling out for the community access program at the nearby campus library. I’m lucky that the satellite campus library is walking distance; the talks and conferences usually mean a couple of hours driving.
I tell people that Ph.d. employment in my field got tight at the end of the Apollo program, and as far as I can tell, wasn’t that great even then.
Sure, but it sucks that we have a system where we have to think about being “marketable.” Making new knowledge matters, and we don’t know what is going to be important to understand in the future… Why does everything have to make money to be worthwhile to pursue studying?
How many do you think get written on Shakespeare vs tackling newer writers or writers of his era who got ignored, but gives us some valuable insights into the time that we’ve previously missed?
I’m really surprised at people clutching their pearls over people embracing their passion for understanding the world… I figured that there were be far less eyerolling over people caring about better understanding the world, but apparently that is not unfashionable to do so, since it doesn’t enrich some corporation… and we wonder how we got to where we are with the state of education in this stupid country.
When was this halcyon time when there were PHD level jobs in academia for everyone who pursued the degree? I’ve been astonished by how readily most universities grant these degrees in the first place, especially in fields like English lit-how many more dissertations on Shakespeare are there to be written?
It doesn’t, of course. Maybe ask PhD students “Do you care about getting a job after you’ve finished?” and go from there. If the answer is “no,” then by all means, another dissertation on six square inches of the Bayeux Tapestry. If the answer is “yes” then they ought to be strongly counseled to move to something for which they might have a [lesser but nonetheless strong] passion and which is marketable upon finishing.
That’s remarkable. Even the discussion of why some Muslims find this offensive while other treasure it as fine art is forbidden. I have no words…
So, basically, we’re gonna move back to where those who actually produce knowledge that is outside the mainstream of what’s considered marketable, is going to be people who can afford to do it… so working class people are not going to be included in that. That’s really the end game, here, right? People do keep bringing up what they consider arcane or pointless, but at one point, studying women, POC, and working class people was considered pointless, too. That changed because more people were able to get advanced degrees and then get jobs sharing that knowledge base with students. My fear is that the focus on marketability unless you are wealthy will undermine moving the field of history forward.
And I don’t think it solves the core problem, which is over production of phds in the first place at the same time that history courses are still being gutted.
I’m not sure that’s what I’ve suggested at all, in no small part because as you have written elsewhere, we have already been there all along.
https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/indicator/2018/03/lower-socioeconomic-status
Cutting down on the production of PhDs is going to have to involve telling people they can’t pursue a PhD, or cutting off peoples’ access to PhD programs in some way. The sad thing is, private schools, especially the wealthy ones, will be able to continue to serve their core populations regardless. Whatever happens, Princeton’s PhD program is going to continue to churn out doctoral students, and faculty will continue to write (admittedly interesting) essays on colonial bestiality.
Not at all, but I think that’s the direction it’s headed in that direction much more firmly. If we did have an expansion of who ended up in academia in the 60s, then that is shrinking, I’d say and I think that’s all our detriment. I just don’t think you get innovative research or insightful analysis by restricting access to the upper classes… it’s true that the upper classes still dominate, but it’s also true that the academy became less pale, upper class, and male since the 60s.
That’s true enough… I guess I’m arguing that we should be more thoughtful about who gets into programs… but as you say, the elite programs like princeton are going to keep pumping out phds who end up being the people who get jobs. And if it’s harder for non-elites to get into those programs, because they are being steered towards “marketable” work… 
I don’t know. I’m just demoralized and frustrated I guess.
Literally never. On average the PhD with a guaranteed academic track could supervise 1 PhD (who enters a guaranteed academic track) unless academia were growing exponentially. Or shrinking exponentially, but that’s a <1 case.
I’m not telling people not to embrace their passion for anything. I’m saying, that without a system that will support an infinite number of people for doing so indefinitely allowing people to believe that getting that degree will lead to a life of academic contemplation is doing them a disservice.
There seem to be two issues here
By definition, a PhD dissertation must be research on a new and unique subject. There is a lot of time and effort involved to figure out what hasn’t yet been studied in English, history, etc. Literally, if someone did their dissertation on the same idea in Jakarta in 1947, well, then you have to keep looking until you find a true void in the framework of knowledge that is already in existence.
It’s about pursuing knowledge, but going into academia is also about sharing that knowledge. Education is and always has been a major aspect of it. And that’s valuable to EVERYONE, not just people pursuing advanced degrees.
The more we focus on “will it make money”, the less we value education for its’ own sake. The markets should not dictate everything.
Sometimes it’s about therapeutic self-reconstruction? 
[Prominent White Nationalist R Derek] Black renounced his former ideology and now speaks out publicly against it. He’s now a doctoral student at the University of Chicago researching proto-racism in early medieval intellectual history.
That’s true for a lot of people, who end up in a good school for college, because our public K-12 are often so awful for students.
Oh look, let’s siphon money from the state public education system into ‘workforce’ training:
All we’re good for is working for the man, after all…
I mean, what good has ever come from teaching the lesser thans to think independent thoughts and dream of better lives? Best get them into the factories where we can stomp out any hope for the future right now. It’s better for everybody like that.
(/s, if needed.)
Makes for good soldiers too. 
