Tesla may be tanking the EV industry

They seem to have finally set on a common charger standard but if anything the industry is moving further away from common form factors for batteries. A number of manufacturers are now making the battery itself a structural component of the car, which means a lighter car and fewer parts but good luck on getting manufacturers to agree to make the car structures common with each other.


The iPad glued to the middle of the front console of the Model 3, not a traditional dashboard.

I’m not that concerned about smashing it, personally, but I don’t like the center instrumentation in any car, so Tesla’s other than the Model S and X are no-go for me. (There’s also the Nazi-ism that I do not wish to support.)


Smashing isn’t the only issue. I wouldn’t trust those to last in Texas heat.


“Tanking the industry” by lowering prices seems like a silly bit of industry FUD — in Hertz’s situation they took a risk that didn’t pan out in their favor (they were mostly lending the cars out to ride-share drivers). Lowering EV prices and making them more obtainable for the average consumer isn’t a bad thing.

Competitors have had to lower prices, across the board, to keep up. This is exactly the opposite of Musk’s statement from late 2023: “You can think of every car we sell or produce that has full autonomy capability as something that in the future may be worth five times what it is today.”

I legitimately feel bad for anyone believing this perennial Musk lie, at this point I wonder if he’s been saying it long enough to get sued for it.


Hertz dumping a bunch of used Teslas onto the market is a textbook example of why auto manufacturers traditionally don’t like fleet sales – when the agencies sell those used cars en masse after a year or two – which they always do – that alone depresses market values.


Resale value is extremely important to a brand’s reputation.


that reminds me of this article from a few months ago:

An electric vehicle battery is made up of thousands of individual cells, which store and release energy. Sometimes, Malakhovsky says, he and his coworkers will break up large EV batteries damaged beyond repair and repurpose the cells to power electric scooters or even drones for the war effort. He says the vast majority of Teslas on Ukrainian roads were once involved in wrecks in North America.


Can’t forget the 60 grand CAD Kia Ioniq battery that was in the news not too long ago. The battery was more than the car was worth and ended up being totaled by his insurance company.

Best thing the industry could do would be to standardize on battery packs. People would be less hesitant to buy if they could easily get a replacement. Or at least I know I would.


This is exactly the opposite of Musk’s statement from late 2023: “You can think of every car we sell or produce that has full autonomy capability as something that in the future may be worth five times what it is today.”

Thing is, Tesla hasn’t sold or produced any cars that have “full autonomy capability” (which would be level 5) yet. And they are years away from it. At best. Right now they seem to be struggling with leaving level 3 behind them. While some of their competitors agruably have reached level 4 already.


I (and my kids) have had multiple tablets in the last 12 years and one did last 9 years - and still worked except the software prerequisites became so high that the OS apps ended up taking all available space and it was super slow.

Now, cars… when I was driving and that was 20 years ago I never had a car that wasn’t at least 10 years old. The best was the 1964 Chevy Impala SS convertible that was 25 years old when I got it, followed by a VW microbus that was a bit older than 25 when I started driving that.

Sadly, I can’t see any car built today lasting any longer than the tablet. Give me an EV with a standardized battery pack and analog instruments and then maybe I’d give it shot but not if costs as much as a house.


We have a 2020 Kia Niro EV. I paid about $1k extra for a 10 year all inclusive warranty that most definitely includes the battery pack.

We’ve had the car for 3 years with zero issues aside from an annual servicing and a couple of minor warranty repairs.

Once you own an EV you get used to thinking in terms of charging. Most of the hesitance I see are people who don’t seem to ‘get it’, but our experience has been great.


Glad to hear that’s worked out for you so far, but what made you decide to purchase a brand new car rather than a used EV?


Beyond the battery, and I never see anyone worry about the engine and gas tank repair costs, the EV needs almost no maintenance. It’s not like we see tons of battery replacement stories either. They make the news because they’re relatively rare.

When we got our EV, we took a hard look at our driving patterns, and the number of cars we own. This is obviously a harder question if you only own one car. Really looking at how far we drive the in a single day every day, week, and month. Also looking at the cost of electricity. In most areas, electricity can be cheap enough that an EV is better than even a very efficient ICE car. However, in a few areas, electricity can be expensive enough (or only using public fast charging that is expensive) that a very efficient car and cheap gas can be cheaper.

Consumer Reports has a chart where you can set the yearly miles, gas cost, and electricity cost. It assumes a 27MPG ICE, 37MPG Hybrid, and 3.0m/kWh


Since we own three cars, turning one into an EV that rarely goes beyond a 200 mile round trip day was easy. We just use the second car when we need to do that type of trip. It is super rare that we would need two cars to do that trip on the same day, and never all three. The joys of adding a new driver and needing another car. The kid got the old car except when I take it back for a trip now and then. Replacing the next one will be harder math, and we would like a PHEV, just not the ones currently available.


THIS. It’s the reason EVs should be less expensive than ICEVs. I blame the dealers. Because of the lower maintenance, they have to make up for what is lost through increased markups and manufacturing scarcity.

Related to scarcity is the type of EVs that they seem to be making. Instead of Bolts and EV versions of Fits and Civics, we’re getting offered behemoth EVSUVs which are twice the price.


That’s not really an issue. EV batteries (on average) lose roughly 1% capacity per year. That means, if you buy a 3 year old EV, you’ve lost 3% of the range (~10 miles on a Model 3). If you drive it for 17 more years (ie, it gets to 20 years), you’ve lost 20% of the range (< 70 miles of range out of the original 341 mile range).

Sure, you aren’t getting as far, but a 20 year old car is probably NOT your “drive long distance across the country car” anymore, so you probably don’t really care.


For $20 to 30k for a battery replacement I could probably replace my car engine maybe 10 times. A new battery is a substantial added cost that would make most people have second thoughts.

My car is an '01 and parts availability is a real issue.

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But why are you replacing it?

Is it just because the battery is old?

Many EV drivers routinely only charge to 90% or less. A battery that’s degraded to 90% of it’s new capacity wouldn’t be an issue at all. Even one degraded to 80% after 20 years. It would be a 20 year old car, probably with 200K plus miles on it. Having 80% battery capacity would likely not be an issue at all. It would just be a cheap 20 year old car.

Is this accidental damage of some type creating the need to replace?

Is the concern that any collision insurance coverage is likely to just total the car if the battery is damaged in an accident, since the part is likely worth more than an older car?

Is there some routine replacing of batteries going on that I’m unaware of?

I dunno man, I’ve smashed like a lot of screens. I’ve just not had one in my car to smash yet…


When I bought my stupid Prius, lo these 15 years ago, the dealerships without a hybrid on offer would try to scare buyers out of purchasing a hybrid with this baseless assertion that the batteries would die at 8 years. Hasn’t happened. Sure, they’re lower in capacity than they used to be, but the car still gets enviable mileage. :woman_shrugging: