The mechanical and safety issues of automobiles of that period aside, I wonder what the roads had been like in Texas up until that time - real, organized road-building programs didn’t even start in the state until the 1930s, and didn’t get serious until the '40s. 20 years previously, only about a third of the roads in Texas were paved (and some of those were brick). That rather sets some notions about how fast automobiles should be going (even after roads improved).
It’d be interesting to see how the decisions of various states to de-pave some of their less-traveled roads in recent decades has had on speed limits there…
i mean they’re changing it from 30 to 20, and only in heavy pedestrian areas. it doesn’t seem all that unreasonable. a lot of places in the states have similarly shifted to 25mph in residential and business areas
I understand his point, however no-one can drive at a constant 30mph in British towns and cities, because of traffic lights and so on. There probably won’t be any noticeable increase in journey times, and he’ll save fuel and brake pads by not accelerating and braking as much.
To illustrate the point, the last time I drove into central London it took me 90 minutes to get from my town to Ealing, about 63 miles, then another hour to get from Ealing to the Barbican, about 11 miles. A lot of the roads between Ealing and the Barbican are 40mph.
@gatto - it is not only in heavy pedestrian areas. It is to be everywhere where the current limit is 30mph - which includes a lot of suburban ‘main’ roads.
@Kilkrazy Nothing in Wales is anything like London. There are many places in small and medium sized towns throughout the UK where 30mph is perfectly attainable for extended periods. Not any more in Wales.
I do support 20mph limits in many places. What the Welsh govt is trying to do is, shall we say, much more ‘ambitious’.
But at what cost? I haven’t followed much on Welsh traffic politics, but my guess is that the main reason for the new speed limit is safety. To be precise, the safety of everybody outside of cars. Mind you, the difference between 30mph and 20mph can be one of life and death.
The total stopping distance under optimal conditions for a car is, according to this table (which is referenced in the previously linked Wikipedia article), 109 feet at 30mph, and 63 feet at 20mph. The distance passed during perception - reaction time at 30mph is 66 feet.
That means, a driver at 20mph is able to come to a full stop within the distance in which a driver at 30mph is still processing information and hasn’t even started braking yet.
Say someone steps onto the road 65 feet in front of you. If you drive 20mph, you can make a safe stop and nobody is hurt. If you drive 30mph, you will crash into that person with 30mph.
Oh, yes - this is all true, and largely why they are doing it. I was not necessarily saying 30mph is ‘good’, just noting that unlike the example quoted, of London - where 8-12mph is good going - many places do not have anything like that volume of traffic slowing everything down, that’s all. And many such places really are ‘main’ roads with extremely low levels of pedestrians. 30mph for extended stretches is, as I say, very attainable in such places.
Yes, but that is circular reasoning - why are so few people walking and cycling in rural places in Britain? Because it is very unpleasant and dangerous due to fast car traffic. Main roads in city centres and suburbs used to be places for business, to meet and chat, before they became car traffic sewers. It’s a bit like saying “we don’t need a bridge here, since nobody is swimming across the river”.
Umm - I was not ‘reasoning’ anything, as a conclusion or corollary. A couple of comments suggested that 30 to 20 was possibly not a big deal because nobody could do 30 anyway, and that it would only apply to heavily pedestrianised areas. Neither of which is the case because Welsh changes are not limited to such areas and because there are many currently 30mph roads where that speed can be attained for long stretches today, and where there are very few pedestrians. I have no doubt this 20 limit will improve things in cities, dense urban areas, etc for cyclists and walkers. Whether it will increase cycle usage in out-of-town centre suburban 30mph areas remains to be seen. I do hope it does. I doubt it will increase pedestrian volume in such areas - many are mostly residential where you need a car (or bus or bike) to get anywhere useful, at all.
There’s also the problem that disc brakes weren’t available in mass production cars in the US until the early 60s, on the whole. Going too fast and not being able to brake quickly enough is pretty scary.
This is key. There’s a TV series in UK about a well-known auctioneer of classic cars. And the sellers’ and buyers’ most common comments about pre WWII and even older cars are variants on
‘it just about keeps up with modern traffic but sometimes you do end up with a queue behind you’
and, critically, ‘you wouldn’t want to go any faster, stopping these things even at low speeds takes longer than you think’
Here in Oxfordshire we’ve had the 20mph limit on most previously 30mph roads for over a year. I drive through towns and villages of all sizes up to Oxford. Traffic conditions in general, slowed by narrow roads and bridges, red lights and so on are what causes delays and slow movement. Once you’re out in the countryside you are back up to 50 or 50. It’s no faster driving in Swindon or London, with their higher speed limits.
Although the guy travelling several miles from job to job a few times a day mostly in 30mph areas might have a case as to the marginal financial cost to him. He needs to be sold on the wider societal benefits - hard to do for a self-employed tradesperson when everyone is struggling to make ends meet.
And then there’s the old adage about how long a journey takes - designed to tell people why they won’t get there quicker by speeding: “It’s not how fast you do the fast bits that makes the difference, it’s how slow you have to do the slow bits” - i.e. there’s not much you can do to make up time lost in traffic jams, road works, etc. Everyone in Wales is just going to have to get used to that regarding the 20mph bits.
i pulled that from the guardian article. they made it sound narrower in scope, but i guess, yeah, it depends on how many roads fall in that category.
The law changes the default speed limited on restricted roads. These are usually residential or busy pedestrian streets with streetlights. Most roads that are set at 30mph will change to 20mph. But not all – local authorities will be able to choose which roads should remain at 30
I’d need to see his and their math(s). I suspect they make some rather optimistic assumptions about current travel times, and omit entirely any savings on fuel. And of course fully ignore any negative externalities.
Lest you mistake me, I am a huge car guy, modern and vintage, and I enjoy driving quickly in the right conditions. But the daily commute is rarely one of them.
Uh huh. Tell me another way that you never drive outside of urban areas. Try driving across the texas panhandle, or… Nebraska, never breaking 45mph and tell me how you feel about it.
I started college in Austin in 1988. At that point I’d only been driving for a couple of years (in the DFW area), but i couldn’t get over how slowly everyone drove. Now that I’ve learned about the old speed limits, it was as though a substantial number of Austinites must’ve still thought the speed limit was 45. (Or that “Interstate 35” meant “go 35 on the Interstate.”) It seemed like people really had no idea of why they were out driving at all, much less where they were going or what time they needed to be there.
As time went on, of course, that changed, like so much else in town… Now the speed limit is 85 on some roads (not right in town, of course).
I think that detail has been missed by a lot of people. There are plenty of 20mph roads in Wales already.
Local authorities have had the power to implement them for a long time and generally in UK tend to do so in densely built-up areas, near schools, and so on.
What Wales is doing is implementing a blanket nationwide 20mph mandate but making local authorities take positive action to remove any 20mph area from the blanket mandate. And given that the country will just have spent millions on new signage etc and local authorities in UK are all cash strapped (and man are technically bankrupt) there may not be much appetite for it.
I can see no clarity on whether local authorities can put the orders in place to preserve any 30mph areas before the 20mph mandate comes into force. I await the news stories about Tory dominated local councils doing just that.
