I think that what has a broader effect than 4chan leaking is that “reality” TV has done a big job on the carpet. The larger body of 45’s supporters are likely fans. Fans who think that the people that they see on their screens actually act that way because they act that way themselves.
It’s interesting to me that Drumpf is both a producer and a fan of unscripted television.
A rational person who can see behind the curtain would conclude that it’s fake but he thinks it’s how things are and should be.
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Pepe’s name needs to be cleared. Matt Furie is a great guy and his Boy’s Club comic is pretty funny.
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Who raised these guys?
Research suggest parental influence wanes around age five and is quickly overtaken by peer influence. For this cohort, my guess is that the internet raised them.
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I can’t agree that that research is correct, at least not with my personal experiences with others. Just out of curiosity, could you please post the actual research findings?
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My take has always been all the sexist/racist fun they had was going to be taken away by left wing policies. So the side that let them keep this junk gets their support.
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Well, maybe they see right wing authoritarian movements as being more likely to win the class war than left wing egalitarian movements. The group you are talking about already has experienced losing the economic part of the class conflict and they didn’t like the low paying food service jobs where they ended up.
I compete in various combat sports with a lot of angry young men stuck in low paying food service jobs. I frequently hear it said by those young men that “the Right is Evil but the Left is Incompetent.”
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That’s kind of disturbing.
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I’m trying my hardest to make sure that parental influence over my own kids remains high and that internet influence remains low. From my experience, parental influence is part of it, but it is just as important for kids to have other strong mentors in their lives (grandparents, teachers, babysitters, etc) who kids can look up to instead of peers. This is not easy to do, but it helps that we moved out of North America and they don’t go to a public school.
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Because the USSR had so much in common with Canada and Finland in the way their government operated.
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EXACTLY! What’s better is most of the damaged happened in the past 20 years due to a market-based capitalist economy draining it to grow cotton.
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I never said it was a given, I only extrapolated as much from the article.
“the Reddit-style web had instead been infected by it. It was almost a thrilling underdog story — the weirdos and outcasts had stood up for something and won — except that the thing they were standing up for was anti-Enlightenment, anti-democratic, anti-equality politics.”
I think that you are applying your own more nuanced view of the way politics work to people who may not be interested in putting that much thought into it, but would rather thumb their noses at those who they imagine are getting things that they are not; and for whom the idea of over throwing the establishment is far more exciting than the longview of economics and social policy.
FWIW, I can say that I have bumped into my share of sexist and racially insensitive Bernie guys.
Edits: typos
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This article by Scientific American, Do Parents Matter, is a good launching off point: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/parents-peers-children/
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This paper’s found evidence of the same and has many citations: Developmental changes in conformity to peers and parents. Berndt, Thomas J., Developmental Psychology, Vol 15(6), Nov 1979, 608-616. http://dx.doi.org/10.1037/0012-1649.15.6.608
Here is a list of the above paper’s citations:
Allen, V. L., & Newtson, D. Development of conformity
and independence. Journal of Personality
and Social Psychology, 1972, 22, 18-30.
Asch, S. Effects of group pressure upon the modification
and distortion of judgment. In M. H. Guetzkow
(Ed.), Groups, leadership and men. Pittsburgh,
Pa.: Carnegie Press, 1951.
Bixenstine, V. E., DeCorte, M. S., & Bixenstine,
B. A. Conformity to peer-sponsored misconduct at
four age levels. Developmental Psychology, 1976,
12, 226-236.
Bowerman, C. E., & Kinch, J. W. Changes in family
and peer orientation of children between the fourth
and tenth grades. SocialForces, 1959,37, 206-211.
Bronfenbrenner, U. Reaction to social pressure from
adults versus peers among Soviet day school and
boarding school pupils in the perspective of an
American sample. Journal of Personality and Social
Psychology, 1970, 15, 179-189.
Condry, J., & Siman, M. L. Characteristics of peerand
adult-oriented children. Journal of Marriage
and the Family, 1974, 36, 543-554.
Devereux, E. C. The role of the peer group experience
in moral development. In J. P. Hill (Ed.), Minnesota
Symposium on Child Psychology (Vol. 4). Minneapolis:
University of Minnesota Press, 1970.
Douvan, E., & Adelson, J. The adolescent experience.
New York: Wiley, 1966.
Emmerich, W., Goldman, K. S., & Shore, R. E. Differentiation
and development of social norms.
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology,
1971, 18, 323-353.
Hartup, W. W. Peer interaction and social organization.
In P. H. Mussen (Ed.), Carmichael's manual of
child psychology (Vol. 2, 3rd ed.). New York:
Wiley, 1970.
Hill, J. P., & Steinberg, L. D. The development of
autonomy during adolescence. In, Youth problems
today. Madrid: Fundacion Faustine Orbegozo
Eizaguirre, in press.
Hirschi, T. Causes of delinquency. Berkeley: University
of California Press, 1969.
Jessor, R., Graves, T. D., Hanson, R. C., & Jessor,
S. L. Society, personality, and deviant behavior.
New York: Holt, Rinehart & Winston, 1968.
Kandel, D. B., & Lesser, G. S. Youth in two worlds:
U.S. and Denmark. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass,
1972.
Larson, L. E. The influence of parents and peers during
adolescence: The situation hypothesis revisited.
Journal of Marriage and the Family, 1972, 34,
67-74.
Nunnally, J. C. Psychometric theory (2nd ed.). New
York: McGraw-Hill, 1978.
Piaget, J. The moral judgment of the child. New
York: Free Press, 1965.
Sherif, M., & Sherif, C. Reference groups: Exploration
into conformity and deviance of adolescents.
New York: Harper & Row, 1964.
Thomas, D. L., & Weigert, A. J. Socialization and
adolescent conformity to significant others: A crossnational
analysis. American Sociological Review,
1971, 36, 835-847.
Willmott, P. Adolescent boys of East London. London:
Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1966.
I don’t think there is a meta-analysis of this data as of yet.
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This is a great topic. Are you planning on doing an episode on this one?
ps- love your podcast.
The thing is, if capitalists had their way they would have gladly drained the Aral Sea for a profit. It’s not like destroying the environment is a tenet of socialism. If anything the draining of the Aral Sea proves just how little attention the Soviets paid to the actual words of Marx.
“Even an entire society, a nation, or all simultaneously existing societies taken together, are not owners of the earth. They are simply its possessors, its beneficiaries, and have to bequeath it in an improved state to succeeding generations.” – Karl Marx
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There is no difference. You don’t win the class war by creating a new underclass. Not all egalitarian movements are left wing though.
Yet more people who can’t see beyond the Overton Window.
Most Democrat politicians are not left wing. They aren’t even the left wing of Capitalism.
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Reading this article I keep thinking about the “Trench Coat Mafia” and the Columbine shooting.
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I saw a tweet right after the election like: “Right wing: Targeting state legislatures is the best way to get our agenda enacted. Left wing: This sandwich is cultural appropriation!”
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German is such a great language for these kinds of words.
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