Originally published at: http://boingboing.net/2017/05/22/anita-sarkeesian-vs-deplorable.html
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As much as I like BoingBoing, I find it very unfortunate and surprising that you see value in FemFreq’s videos. Even if she has a point in “Tropes vs Women”, it’s hard to deny that it’s covered under a mountain of cherry picking and reality distortion.
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Tropes vs Women is commentary, not a peer reviewed study. Like it’s one person’s opinion.
You think it’s “unfortunate and surprising” to listen to opinions that you disagree with?
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So, you like BB so much that you only signed up to comment when something Sarkeesian has been working on is mentioned and then only to complain about her work?
Color me dubious.
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First comment out of the gate!!! Someone has their google alerts on!
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Welcome to bOINGbOING, comrade! We suspect you’ll be a very active and productive member of this community!
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Hmm… I’m a Sarkeesian fan, but I don’t agree with her opposition to the Putin and Trump kissing meme.
To me that drawing depicts them as being impulsive and irrational, like two people in love, as opposed to diplomatic and level headed statesmen. The homoeroticism implicit in the image is just a byproduct of them being the same gender.
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Moreover, if it is correct that the meme first emerged in Eastern Europe then I suspect this is the inspiration:
Wholesome heterosexuality all the way.
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I think its unfortunate when those opinions aren’t backed up with honest evidence. It’s also unfortunate when you can’t criticize some of the cherry picked samples and questionable conclusions with out coming off as some woman hating he-man.
And while disagreeing with some of her stuff, other parts are on point and shouldn’t disregarded off hand. Nor is the savage reaction some have acceptable.
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I dunno, my impression has been that th images are meant to be insulting to Trump and those who support him. Of course, seeing them as insulting requires seeing homosexuality as weak or aberrant, which would only serve to reinforce that idea in those who believe it.
We already know that Trump is impulsive and irrational based on his behavior during debates and in his social media presence. I don’t think that is the message intended in the images.
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Opinions aren’t usually the kind of thing people demand evidence for. Like:
“Hey, I think that X.” “LIAR!” Doesn’t really make much sense to me.
I can understand disagreeing with Sarkeesian. I wouldn’t even demand evidence in such a case, because opinions just aren’t the kind of thing where evidence is super relevant. Honestly, I don’t even watch the series (I’ve seen maybe two episodes) so I don’t really understand why there’s screaming outrage every time anyone even mentions it.
I mean, do you think Sarkeesian has some kind of ulterior motive such that she’s falsifying her opinions as a sort of shill for Big Outrage or something?
You should definitely blame the people who throw screaming fits for this, and maybe consider criticizing them in addition to criticizing Sarkeesian for having opinions that you disagree with.
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I disagree. I have played most of the games she criticizes and find that she is only a little off base here and there. And some times she misses something obvious that could drive her point home (case in point how female characters sit in Destiny, where she failed to mention the history of side saddle horse riding).
But then, a criticism like you level here is usually used by people who want to tear her down without seeming like a troll. So, welcome to BoingBoing!
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Let’s try an experiment.
From my understanding, there’s an episode where Sarkeesian cites the open world game TES V: Skyrim as an example of misogyny based on the fact that the player can choose to target women for horrific, bloody violence.
The targeting of women is not built in to the game, or rewarded or incentivized in any obvious way. It is one of thousands of actions people can take in the game. One popular thing to do, for example, is to collect hundreds of gemstones, pile them on the ground, and then use a power that generates simulated momentum to spray them all over the place – not something the game designers explicitly included, but a possibility that is allowed for given the constraints of the game engine.
Contrast the classic Duke Nukem 3D, which famously portrayed strippers and had some vaguely misogynistic cheat codes. Although the sexism of that game is still fairly oblique, it is inarguably written into the game by the developers, not purely the result of player choice, and therefore fair game for criticism.
But Skyrim doesn’t reward violence against women (at least not more than it does violence against men), and in fact much of the writing of the game is outright feminist – and often in a complex rather than ham-handed way. (One stand-out moment (warning: spoilers) is when you go to raid a bandit hideout and near the beginning find a lovelorn husband seeking his wife, supposedly kidnapped by the bandits. It turns out the young woman is actually the leader of the bandits and ran away from her husband intentionally to seek adventure.)
Therefore, I think Sarkeesian’s criticism of Skyrim is unreasonable. Open world games, by their very nature, empower the player to make many and varied choices about how they engage with the game world. Only the player can be blamed for what they choose to do with that freedom.
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About it being opinion, and not peer reviewed study: Can’t there be something in between? E.g. I find no pleasure in watching Fox News (quite the opposite actually) precisely because they only rely on opinion.
To add to your Skyrim example, another case where she distored the possibily space in open world games is Hitman. Dunno which of her vids it was.
I’m a fan of women and equal rights and all that shambalam, but I prefer getting there through honest arguments.
Since I’ve been following BB the FemFreq vids has been the only content posted here that I very much dislike. And that made me curious as to what the people behind it think about criticism of it. What’s your color now?
Since you’ve been following BB? That would be since 2 hours ago?
Sounds like manufactured outrage to me.
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Astounding level of suspicion here. Was this place raided by 4Chan recently or where has all the good faith gone? Unfortunately Feedly won’t tell me how long I’ve been following BB, but I have the vague feeling that it won’t change your preconceived notions about me anyway.
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Let’s please not try to run out the “newbies” just because they are newbies or take unpopular opinions.
@gregor is entitled to his opinion, even if it happens to be unpopular. I’ll note however that Ms. Sarkeesian has never suggested her videos were based on scientific studies or anything of the sort, however, and trying to hold them to that standard when the vast majority of videos on youtube could not meet that standard (nor could the vast majority of videos posted to Boing Boing, either) is somewhat suspect.
Based on that, my personal guess is a manifestation of the Backfire effect in play.
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Thanks. Though while I love that comic, I don’t think it applies to me. While I do play many videogames, I’m not a fan of the industry of large and very glad to criticize all kinds of aspects of it. But the criticism has to be sound, and I don’t think FF is. My standards might be a little higher than average youtube video.
Out of curiosity, has anyone here watched the criticism by Thunderf00t and what did you think of it?
