The root problem is that there’s no mandatory certification or enforcement. There are standards to be met, but if someone makes a crap cable or charger there’s no repercussion if it doesn’t work right, if it damages the device. It’s one of the benefits of Apple’s MFi program: to have it, it needs to work right. Cables can be more expensive, but I’d rather pay a little more to not deal with it.
USB-C is a total shitshow. Many of my devices and chargers are usb-c, even Apples usb-c chargers are not cross compatible (different power negotiation requirements), and Apple’s standard usb-c cables aren’t rated for data unless you get their usb-c thunderbolt cable.
Then again my larger size iPad Pro with USB 3 to Lightening cable won’t charge off of the USB port on my iMac, only when plugged into a higher amperage charger. usb-c isn’t the only thing they are making a mess out of.
USB-C in fact is the new Cannon connector (D-connector).
I once talked to a Cannon executive at a conference when the IBM PC had just come out, and he was complaining that he had rather they did not use the D connector because it was expensive to make, labour intensive, and used for too many other things. Many years later and we still have some computers with D connectors for video.
There was a kind of standardisation (mini 15 for video, 2-row 25 for printer) but after you had connected a +/-15V swing RS-232C port to an RS-422 port there was little to do but invent expletives.
That’s one problem, but the spec itself is written so broadly that the likelihood of an affordable cable doing the thing you want it to do is not very high.
Yeah, I’ve always focused on the PD section, but quite frankly the cable requirements only is required for Document 8. That one’s only 250 or so pages, but it’s pretty straightforward and covers basically all types that can have USB-C. The biggest thing is that cable makers seem to be lazy for EMC (Electronically Marked Cable which is a requirement for all USB-C cables), which ups the complexity slightly and means it’s no longer just wires to a connector. The spec isn’t the problem, it’s the manufacturers just being cheap.
Does anybody remember the good old days of RS232? Such a simple idea, so many different cables. I always had a copy of that page from Horowitz & Hill handy, the one that gave several cables that, between them, worked for just about everything. Plus ça change.
I can’t even count the number of de-prioritized connectors & cases I still have in boxes including various RS-232, PS-2 (and adapters), parallel, SCSI (various types), ADB, Mini Display Port, DVI, ADB, several sizes of “phone jack”, FireWire (various types), Thunderbolt (and adapters), HDMI (and adapters), MIDI, USB in all its glorious connector types, and some I can no longer identify.
Yeah, I remember both SCSI and Firewire not fondly.
This is just me, but if the brand I preferred unilaterally asked me to upgrade an otherwise perfectly good ecosystem of peripherals, I’d switch brands. Apple is the only brand that users won’t even consider abandoning. And I get that for many of them it’s the Mac OS. As a Linux user, I understand wanting Unix under the hood. But if the new MBP had come with one USB-A and one HDMI or even mini-HDMI along with two thunderbolt ports, they’d have needed no more overall bandwidth and appealed to so many more customers. No one needs four thunderbolt ports.
Here’s the thing, Apple has no incentive to listen to anyone who’s going to buy what they make anyway. So while I agree there’s reason to be irritated with them, I don’t understand what reason there is to complain unless one is willing to also complain with their wallet.
Anyway, I don’t have to abandon my peripherals, even the FireWire hub and devices. I could make them work but for future planning it makes much more sense for me to move to NAS than rely on aging HDDs in an external hub and spoke configuration.
This thread is full of people who seem to think that their ThinkPads must be pried from their cold dead hands…
The Thunderbolt part of USB-C is daisy chainable, but recalling SCSI & Firewire (or even USB) daisy chain experiences, I’d rather have 4 ports that I can adapt to whatever than four ports of different types for this particular laptop. Either way I’ve got a few cables to carry with me so thats six of one, half dozen of the other.
Again going back to all the ThinkPad loyalists, look at how many of them seem to think Lenovo doesn’t listen to whatever they think is the best feature (keyboards, track nipples, etc) for one model or another. Same for Sony Vaio laptops back in the day. As I’ve mentioned before the Vaio C1 was my last Wintel machine and when I found out that Sony offered no way to upgrade the OS and still make use of its nifty hardware bits and Linux at the time was just as bad, I voted with my wallet and went for a PowerBook G4 because OS X with its NeXT Step heritage was the Unix that I wanted. Sure this has meant over the years adjusting to various ports as mentioned but again, thats life with computers.
They are better made than Apple, with comparable components at a lower price, save for the screens and trackpads. A lot of ThinkPad users prefer the eraser mouse so the trackpad doesn’t interest them. I was never a huge fan of it, but that’s more up to personal style.
The appeals of ThinkPads are durability, longevity, user-serviceability, above-average thermal management (which helps with longevity), good in-warranty service (in fairness Apple’s in-warranty is as good or better, but making your own repairs is increasingly impossible), some upgradeability depending on model, parts can be procured, less CPU throttling (see thermal), and comfortable keyboards.
The downsides are mediocre screens, they’re a little heavier overall, and some people don’t like the one’s with plastic housing (even though it’s more shock absorbent than aluminum). They’ve also been creeping up in price, and I do think that’s in part because Lenovo believes their customers are as loyal to them as Apple customers are to Apple. I think that’s going to come back to bite them in the ass. But I could be wrong. Microsoft Surfaces are terribly made under-powered IO nightmares that makes four thunderbolt ports look sane and they seem to be selling fine.
Screens and input devices are pretty damn important for laptops. Personally I like trackpads and the Apple ones can’t be beat. The track nipple was great in its time but it seemed all of em eventually developed “drift” (for lack of a better term).
I only ever used a Surface 3 and just never got the hang of it. The overall experienced seemed to combine the worst of tablet and notebook together.
Separate connectors = separate ports = reduced space for batteries and all that stuff. That’s really what’s driving the consolidation here.
Anyway USB-C has its issues, but at least it hasn’t (yet) led to me breaking a smartphone by trying to plug in a connector the wrong way round. I just need to be a bit careful when buying cables, which was a thing with quick-charging/non-quick-charging usb cables as well. I don’t know what the big deal is.
Firewire actually predated USB on the Mac, as it was intended to replace SCSI. It wasn’t until USB 23 came out that Apple stopped developing FireWire. FireWire predated the return of Steve Jobs, in fact.
Thunderbolt also predates USB-C, and both it and the Lightning cable were very important in driving development of USB-C. If it weren’t for the success of the two connectors (Thunderbolt by being the only game in town, Lightning by dint of iPhone popularity) then we still would have had the horrific connector that was to succeed micro-USB.
Apple going forward with their own proprietary connectors was their way of dealing with everyone else’s foot-dragging.
And lightning still has its advantages, although those are a bit questionable. I’m still not sure whether the term “external graphics card” is terrifying or awesome.
Yeah, that’s what I was referring to. Thunderbolt provides pcie access. Basically something you plug into your ports can have as much access as a thing you plug into your motherboard
