Because while the two can be related, misogyny is not the same thing as toxic masculinity.
Heavens, where to start? Looks around…
The relocated comments below were in response to this comment:
That is quite odd. There has been at least a 30" height difference between the shortest and tallest people who have driven me in a car. Even if the standard seatbelt position is for a slightly tall man, it really shouldn’t be.
My dad used to push the seat all the way back and then recline it. The seat behind him would be unusable, but it was the only way he could fit.
I’m… not quite sure what your point is in posting this in a topic about misogyny, especially after the IIHS reported that significantly more women are injured in collisions than men just this year. #notallmen are safe either?
It looks like the conversation started with how critical safety features aren’t designed for women’s bodies and that morphed into how critical safety features aren’t designed for some body types period…
To be honest, I don’t remember either. Just riffing on the human factors thing. Not sure why seatbelts apparently only work for people between 5’10" and 6’4" when the vast majority of people are outside that range. There should have been much more research done into this, but in my experience, human factors analysis and anything concerned with safety and security is an afterthought at best.
If it’s offensive just remove that bit. I meant no harm.
If those of us over 6’4" can’t fit in a driver’s seat normally, then yes, #NoTallMen
Yep, this is it. No more no less.
I’m sure it is. But I think that’s the point - lots of things are designed with men in mind. Most of them are t designed with Women in mind - and when that comes up, instead of being a conversation about “hey, we should design with Women in mind” the discussion inevitably becomes “hey, let’s just make our designs more inclusive, never mind the effects of this male-centric design now intrinsic to our products has affected so many other things as a result”.
Literally the all lives matter camp make the same argument - that the point should be increasing respect for all lives, no more, no less. Except Women have already been less, just as POC have already lost that respect, and focusing on “all” people, while surely a laudable goal, loses sight of that fact. It needs to be both. One is not simply a subset of the other.
The fact that the conversation morphed so naturally goes to show that being a feminist requires active consciousness to always examine and challenge how the world treats women and the underlying assumptions that have been drilled into our heads since birth. Feminism cannot be complacent. This has been a good illustration of that.
I get what you’re saying, but I never actually said that, or anything like it. I don’t think throwing the same problematic design methodologies that created the problem at the same problem one is trying to fix will do anything, except in this case kill people. To say this is a pet peeve of mine is a severe understatement. In my personal experiences as an engineer, I have seen a lot of ridiculous attempts to push shoddy, minimally acceptable work out the door, and companies who literally don’t give a fuck about human lives and just want to maximize profits. So no, I absolutely don’t think we should do what, I guess, you said i said should be done.
No. They are not saying the same thing I’m saying.
I was reacting to the suggestion to “jack up the seat” that was directed at a man, because the answer is much more complicated than that. Jack up the seat so that the seatbelt is at the appropriate level, then push the seat back so your knees aren’t hitting the steering wheel, then recline the seat to avoid bumping your head, and then do… something or another to avoid getting a face full of B pillar every time you check your blind spot, I don’t know, I haven’t fully figured it out yet, which is why I hate rental cars. Or, instead, cars can be designed to accommodate a wider range of body types. As I mentioned, many cars have the seatbelt position on the A or B pillar so that it is fully adjustable. This is a perfectly reasonable design choice that accommodates a range of body types.
What I did specifically not say is that certain body types should be accommodated at the expense of certain other body types.
We know you didn’t mean all of that. But when all is said and done, this is a thread dedicated to misogyny. It’s not even your fault that the conversation shifted, but now that we notice the shift, it’s time to get back to the main topic… because to do otherwise has meaning as well, even if unintended
I think maybe you realize that now, but maybe not at first. I can see how the conversation got derailed, and I definitely could have been clearer about what I meant. It still burns me up that automobile safety features are woefully inadequate for women, and there are relatively easy steps to solving this problem, but they cut into the manufacturers bottom line too much. Oftentimes they are taken, but only if they’re treated as add on like leather seats or surround sound or extra large cup holders, and charged through the nose for. Treating life saving safety features like they’re extravagant goodies that nobody really needs is a failure of capitalism. Misogyny has a huge impact on this, but even where it doesn’t, it still is worth mentioning.
For what it’s worth, I never thought that you or anyone else in the conversation meant anything even the least bit untoward. It’s simply a matter of the right TPO (time, place, occasion) for the discussion. We all have blindspots, and there’s been no harm, no foul here.
I will also point out that in a topic dedicated to Misogyny, the male-to-female ratio of responses has tipped pretty far in the wrong direction, and I will step back here.
Men drive, they aren’t objects to be driven.
And when they drive, they’re neither good at it not conscientious of others, they just wanna get where they wanna go as fast as possible.
Wait, what are we talking about again?
Yeah, that is sadly all too often exactly right.
Just what toxic masculinity is can also be a matter of perception:
(Wish I could embed that video.)