Where were you with the isms when we had a whole thread on this
Figures, I just got in there, and it closes.
See - canāt be a member of any club that has somebody like me for a memberā¦
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Agreed.
Aside from the initial shock and sense of up-heaval, it seems to me that a helluva lot of all the sniffling and huffing on the part of some individuals who claim āthe lounge was elitistā is just straight up sour-grapes that they didnāt/donāt bond well with certain groups of specific individuals; and I gotta say boo-fucking-hoo to them.
Itās not anyone elseās fault if you ādonāt play well with othersā or if your persona is somehow repellent, and blaming your feelings of rejection on the existence of the lounge is just disingenuous at best.
So are all the comparisons to cliques, country clubs, and Mean Girls (although that is totally my jam, as far as teen movies go.)
We didnāt choose the Lounge, the Lounge chose us, via our metrics.
Itās been stated repeatedly anyone could achieve regular status with enough interaction, and thatās true; there were plenty of mutants who were regular status for whom I had no love lost and with whom I rarely engaged.
Enso was a perfect example; we didnāt care for each other at all, despite having many similar viewpoints and core values.
But as both he & @Donald_Petersen rightly said, there was a sense of familiarity therein that was comforting, even if everyone wasnāt buddy-buddy with everyone else (and please believe it, we werenāt.)
It sucks that that ācomfort zoneā is gone, and the members who will miss it have a right to vent their feelings of disappointment.
For everyone else who never got the opportunity to experience all the in-jokes, rambling discussions and meta-insanity of spending way too much time on the BBS, hereās to you:
##(Just look at it.)
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To amplify on that a bit, all the TL3 metrics are around simple participation, as in āthis person shows up daily, for weeks and weeks, and participates a lotā. Primarily by reading stuff, with a reasonable amount of posting and liking (both directions) mixed in.
It is very strange to claim that set of metrics is elitist in any way.
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I donāt consider regulars āelitistā in any way (If I did, I would not have jumped into this situation, nor would I have offered to host their community privately elsewhere!)
I do believe it created a two-tier community. But thatās not the same as creating some sort of elitist aristocracy.
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Yes, but there are already tiers, as pointed out earlier in the discussion:
- users
- moderators (antinous, Falcor, you)
- editors (site owners)
Even within users, there are tiers
- New users (light grey username) TL0
- Basic users, TL1
- Members, TL2
- Regulars, TL3
(There is also TL4, Leader, which is manual promotion only.)
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And yet here we are.
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It did; not counting the levels reserved for the admin and above.
But the ātwo tiersā werenāt mutually exclusive to each other; they were fluid.
Just as one could āascendā to regular status by being consistently active in the requisite behaviors, one could just as easily lose that status, by failing to maintain that level of activityā¦ like, say, if a āregularā person got pissed off for some reason and decided not to log in for a few weeks, that inactivity would likely tip that person back to member status.
Again, thatās not ācasteā, itās not āelitistā, and itās not aristocratic; itās just math.
That some people are determined to believe otherwise says way more about them than it does about the way the site is set up.
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Heck back when I first got regular status I didnāt quite realize the lounge was locked to other users and there were not that many either. But yes it was basically a numbers game and anyone could get in. Including members who got on each others nerves. We were never a very united front other than we all just hang out here too much. It definitely was not an anti trolley brigade and lately trolley comments were getting hidden by the TL2 members flagging before we noticed or just as we notice and were double checking.
As far as what was doneā¦ well it was done and I am not thrilled with it but since I donāt pay the bills I am willing to lump it because @orenwolf is trying hard to make the best of the situation for us. I do think a better heads up would have been nicer.
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Of course there are. The goal is to have all members be equal. The goal wasnāt to create tiers of members. Anyone who comes to the BBS and shows a willingness to abide by the community guidelines should be an equal member of the community. We messed that up. We tried for years to balance the two. It was fundamentally flawed for Boing Boingās forums to do that.
I respect the community that blossomed within that space. I want that community to remain as part of the BBS. I want to find a solution that works for everyone. But that solution needs to be transparent, and promote discussions everyone can participate in.
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One MILLION points for referencing my favourite Disney character of all time.
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Right, itās just that will prevent certain types of conversations from occurring on BBS. Some may be comfortable coming out only among Regulars, who have put in the time and are probably not brigading channers who will dox and harass and spam your phone all hours of the night (true story, it happend to me).
In an effort to ensure that all conversations are open to all readers BBS has ensured that deep-level conversations and personal anecdotes will not be shared.
EDIT:
but thatās just me and my cis male privilege speaking
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So a person who shows up today and creates an account and posts one time, is exactly equal to someone who spent 3 years posting here and has hundreds of posts, hundreds of likes?
I just canāt get behind that logic.
I also donāt think the tension was between the users in the first place, so that whole angle is a macguffin to move the plot along.
Which is fine, as long as the plot goes somewhere interesting in the storyā¦ and the movie doesnāt roll credits.
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I know. I get that. Iām sorry that thatās the case. But this is supposed to be our Public Forum. Itās the very fact that I recognize the importance of those discussions that I was willing to create a space for them elsewhere, with my own expense and effort, if needed to allow them to continue. I hope that they do continue elsewhere. And most of all I hope that these forums continue to be a place that has value for each and every member. I am going to do my part to try and make that the case.
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They should be able to see the contents of the forum, yes. Whether or not their comments will be regarded equally by the community is up to the community, just like it is in every discussion everywhere. If the come here to cause trouble, they are removed. If they come here to participate, then we want them to be able to read the discussions here, understand the tone and the community that we have, and then join in.
I know this goes against the design of your software, which (I preusme) reflects your idea of community building. But long before BBS, the Boing Boing discussion area was a place where anyone could read and comment on discussions. Discourse has allowed us, for the first time, to have the community create and foster some of those discussions, and to build relationships as a result, and Iām glad thatās the case. But not in a way that segments that discussion, and as a result, the members of that community. There are enough walled gardens out there to do that.
The Demon from Night on Bald Mountain?
Seriously?
Iām not a Disney person* but that was my favorite segment of Fantasia, and that particular gif (hard G!) is one of my favorites for demonstrating emphatic agreement, so thatās a cool coincidence.
*I hate the corporate entity that is evil incarnate, but growing up in the US on a steady diet of main-steam media, itās influence is almost inescapable.
Even if you abhor it, you still get exposed to the cult of Disney, and itās hard not to appreciate all the incredible talent and artistry that the nefarious company exploits.
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