Trump orders missile strikes on Syria. Russia calls it 'aggression,' international law violation

Well this is hardly a surprise. I think many different presidents would have had a similar response.

Though I have to say I am a bit surprised about it. It appears there might not be actual strings out of Russia. Which is probably a good thing. Probably.

Next, have we conclusively figured out who launched the original chemical attack? I have heard speculation on both Assad and ISIS.

A few points on international law;

  1. Though the “laws of war” are far less defined for internal conflicts (civil war) there are still rules that apply about the use of checmical weapons and attacks against civilians.
  2. When an internal conflict results in gross violations of these principles, an outside force may intervene under the principle of humanitarian intervention. These principles are far from defined, but must of course still follow the applicable laws of war.

I support intervention in Syria on the grounds of humanitarian intervention, both in the interest of the Syrian population and reducing their suffering, and in the self-interest of the United States in promoting stability in the region and reducing the number of refugees, which is a humanitarian crisis on its own, and a burden on our allies (not as much on us).

All that said, I cannot yet support the action of yesterday. While there is an argument to be made for swift action, I think that it is more likely that by not garnering more support or thinking about (and preparing for) long term strategy in the conflict, our actions yesterday are unlikely to solve the humanitarian crises, and are instead likely to result in a conflagration, especially with Russia, which could lead to very serious consequences - even world war. It remains to be seen whether yesterday’s strike will be surgical and successful or reckless. Either way, I’m disapproving in Obama that we are in this position because I do think that his lack of fortitude put the US in a more difficult position. I also think that if it were Hillary in office instead of Trump, I’d have a lot more confidence that the response would be measured and strategic.

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Thank you for your not TL;DR summary? encapsulation? of what the US has been doing in the Middle East and Syria during the past decade.

And McCain and Graham…disgusting beyond belief, men who were not long ago denigrating Trump.

And what can be done about this by those of us who aren’t in a position to do much? (l know that reads oddly, but I don’t know how else to phrase it.)

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I honestly don’t know what the hell the US should do in response to Syria anymore (aside from allowing in more of the refugees trying to flee the country). I am absolutely terrified that the person making that call is the petulant manchild in the White House though.

Not knowing what else to do I just sent a donation to the White Helmets.

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How do you know who used what weapons? Where did the western media get it’s facts from?

[quote="Javier_Agudelo] the cause was Assad’s use of chemical weapons, which seems to be true. In contrast to other US wars in the middle east (Iraq), whose official cause wasn’t actually true.
[/quote]

Sorry, how do you know Assad used chems?

Are there any locations in the world where suffering is being imposed where you would not support intervention?

There seems to be no shortage of governments and quasi-governments around the world who would love to have the United States do their killing and dying for them. Opposition to this was to me the “stopped clock moment” where Trump for once got it right. No more!

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Then again, it would be poor form to expect them to clean house for us. Why wait?

Most talk I encounter of “WWIII” seems more like morbid whimsy rather than anything really military or political. I don’t subscribe to the idea that only unofficial conflicts or a truly world-wide conflict are the only possibilities. Two countries (or more) can still have an official war with clear objectives.

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Wait . . . I thought it was Hillary Clinton who was supposed to be the dangerous warmonger who’d start a war with Russia over Syria.


Soooooo . . . if Putin is really angry over this, do you think he might release the PeePee Gate video?

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Yeah, me too. I thought Trump was going to start a war with Russia over his bruised ego somehow.

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The Russians had troops in the area; Trump notified them before the strike. You can betcha arse that the Russians passed that along to their Syrian allies.

He blew up an empty airfield.

In the meantime, Trump gets to pretend that he isn’t Putin’s puppet and the news of the ramming onto the court of Judge “Fascism Forever” Gorsuch is muffled.

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On the (small) bright side; while Russia clearly isn’t happy; the fact that they made no attempt to use the (fairly capable) air defense hardware they brought in after the incident with Turkey does suggest that they are less displeased than they could be.

Cruise missiles are much closer to being airplanes than being ballistic missiles for interception purposes; so it isn’t just an issue of interception being technically impractical.

What we’ve got now is very likely to go badly; but still has a shot at a bunch of futile meandering followed by relatively minor consequences. Had the Russians felt strongly enough to actually attempt air defense, that would be less likely.

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Some action of some kind was justified, and was many years ago, but the US lobbing bombs doesn’t have a great track record of fixing stuff in the ME, even when the leaders of the places we were bombing were doing horrible things. Unilateral bombing has an even worse track record. Syria is in a civil war. Neither of the dominant parties in conflict are likely to leave things in a less hideously broken state full of human suffering and atrocities than the other. In many ways Assad is actually less horrible than his alternative, and he’s worked to make sure of that. I have no idea what he right thing to do is, that’s way past my pay grade, but Trump and the GOP both said and showed they had no problems with Assad using chemical weapons, eliminating all moral authority, and show no signs of any workable plan besides lobbing some bombs and vague claims about regime change that would likely increase the atrocities, not end them.

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Not the tremendous value we get from 1 month of Trump family outings

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Quick, launch missiles at the monster who killed those civilians!!!

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I have to wonder if there wasn’t a tacit agreement between the White House and the Kremlin on what would happen here. From what I’ve read the missile strikes didn’t crater the runway, which is usually the goal of this kind of operation. If that’s true can see a realpolitik agreement here: sure, make yourself look like a big-boy President, and as long as you don’t completely wreck the Chinless Wonder’s airfield we won’t use our air defense system against your missiles.

The outcome we have now is elevated chest-beating and posturing, with the U.S. and its awful Arab allies on one side and Russia and its awful Arab and Iranian allies on the other.

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I’d hate to see what examples you bring forward when you’re not walking on eggshells around sensitive topics. :open_mouth:

Yeah, that pretty much sums up the reality of this series of events. Let’s never forget the waffling hypocrites who are willing to sabotage their own country for party and power.

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Where have you been the last 16 years? It’s still 9/12 baby

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