I recommend this thread: Melizmatic's Meme-versation (Part Deux)
I don’t know if it’s unproductive until I’ve read it. If it’s unproductive, I’ll ignore it. If it’s potentially harmful someone who may have messed up an ordinary task, or someone who appears to have a disability, I’ll engage in conversation about it. I’m sure you speak out against what you see as injustice.
Omfg, for the last time; getting fired because you fucked up is not "injustice."
Why do you feel the need to advocate for someone you do not know and more than likely could care less about you?
The devil doesn’t need you to advocate for him, he does that all on his own just fine. (credit to @Melz2 for that)
Can you tell me again exactly how this post and the ensuing discussion are harming a television celebrity who chose to tell the world about what the mistake he made?
Sometimes people do or say things that can seem to indicate a comfortable attitude with racism or sexism or various jerkeries. Sometimes it’s intended, admitted or denied, and sure, sometimes it’s accidental.
If this happens to you, and your grand takeaway is that the actual-most-serious problem is that sexism, racism, homophobia, whatever is taken too seriously, and then you publicly crusade to allow more jerk behavior as a solution to your personal problem, then yes, people should feel free to publicly disagree with your short-sided and ignorant take.
This is also what happened with Kevin Hart. He spent 95% more time complaining about the people who were complaining about homophobic speech, then convincing people he was actually the kind of person who gave a shit about the people he originally talked about. Then he was surprised and hurt when more people weren’t publicly placing his personal opportunities over caring about homophobia.
I think it’s easy to not take responsibility when you’re part of a crowd. If you drive a gas powered car, you probably don’t feel like you’re single-handedly causing climate change, but, we have climate change because everyone feels that way.
In general, I think people are like that with public shamings. If everyone thinks, “our post/comment won’t make a difference” and the person is shamed in every corner of the earth because of it, well, it was made much worse because no individual took responsibility for it’s cumulative destructive properties. In this case, I also don’t think there is enough evidence to call the guy a racist. It’s possible, but there are many other cases where it’s clear.
Do you think people should be shamed in unclear circumstances?
If Rob really doesn’t like my comments, he can ban me. He doesn’t need you to tell me to “fuck off”. I’ve been swayed by his previous writing, and I’ve seen him keep an open mind when dealing with comments. In fact, I’ve seen him stand up for free speech, even when the statements weren’t favorable towards him. I don’t always agree with Rob, but that is an admirable quality.
Well there you have it, folks - ‘thousands’ of other random people have the guy’s back, so all the hand-wringing mutants here on BB can go ahead and quit stanning for him now; the position of White Knight has already been filled.
By the way, one person of color saying that someone else’s offensive behavior is ‘okay’ or “isn’t that bad” doesn’t negate the negative impact of that behavior, and it doesn’t mean that they are speaking on behalf of all POC. We are not a monolith.
It’s no hard task to find a person from any persecuted group who will happily parrot their oppressor’s viewpoint, and even actively work to further their goals.
As the institution of slavery had it’s overseers, as the Jewish people had kapos, so we also have our contemporary counterparts, who act out of a sense of opportunism or self-hatred… perhaps even both, simultaneously.
He used a racial slur on air.
He spent most of his time telling people to give a break to those who use racial slurs on television.
I’m okay with the fact that he gets public disapproval for making society less good.
You are trying to shame everyone here. Your argument is that people should feel bad about how they treat this weatherman, because you think if they feel bad, they will course-correct and behave in a better way. You think shame is fiiiiiiine.
Racism works through us whether we want it to or not. This is why context and consequences are as important as intentions, and why the nature of what follows – evasion, nonapology, defensiveness, hastily-organized PR efforts, cultivation of instant audiences – is often the hidden energy of what would otherwise be a trivial viral event.
As a follow up…This is what further brings to light the utter BULLSHIT this guy is slinging. He didn’t know what he was saying?!? WTF.
Anyone else makes a tongue twisted mistake immediately acts with shame “omg…I can’t believe I just said that. I am so sorry everyone…sheesh wtf is wrong with me.”
This guy acts like he didn’t say it.
Then claims he’s never said that word before.
Now says “But I don’t even know what that word is or means!”
Does this pattern sound at all familiar?
At what point can I publicly disagree with this guy’s approach to making amends?
I’ve already said mutliple times that I don’t agree with your assessment of what’s happening here. I wouldn’t wish the scrutiny of the internet on anyone, but it’s something that could happen to any of us, even those who aren’t on television.
I think that social media has been a great good for social progress, by allowing certain groups to demonstrate hard evidence of the soft aggressions that they deal with every day.
I believe that a lot of good conversations are happening because of it, and that maybe a new sort of self-awareness and understanding is beginning to develop within our culture.
ETA: all of which is to say that when it is apparent that one’s words and deeds are subject to wider scrutiny, more people may choose treat others with civility, if only to avoid criticism. This is after all, how social pressure leads to change.
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That’s what I mean. I’d like to change that rather than some headlines. That doesn’t seem to be working. I don’t care about some weatherman; I’m more concerned that we’re going all-in on a losing strategy.
Anti-blackness is a huge part of America’s self-image. It’s absolutely fundamental to the psychic health of white people, which is why it’s so easy to get them to act against their own self-interest with some vague scare mongering. It will be fucking hard to attack, is what I’m saying.
The left seems more interested in the moral high ground than effective strategy. The current practice seems to consist entirely of using public relations and market pressure to persuade neo-liberals to be more inclusive. It’s effective only at assuaging white guilt. not actually confronting whiteness. Fred Hampton didn’t get shot because he was right, he got shot because he was successful in creating solidarity between rednecks and black people.
I’m tired of hearing about effective communications strategy from people who aren’t actually being successful in their communications strategy. If you are organizing and seeing results, I encourage you to continue to do so and to share best practices. But so often people in forums like to say “that’s not the right way to convince people.” But assuming:
- There is a better way to bring people around
- You know it is
Then shouldn’t the conclusion be:
- You are able to bring me or others in the forum around?
There’s a missing link there.
Watching some white guy saying about the most offensive racist slur imaginable on live TV and suffer no consequences would hurt people. Once this made the news, it became a real proxy battle over whether white people get to do whatever they want to black people. This isn’t a game of being morally superior to this guy, this is about saying, “Not this time,” over and over and over. The racism that shows up in this headline and the racism that is part of the material conditions of life for racialized groups is the same racism.
Arguing with people here about whether firing is an appropriate response for this guy doesn’t make me feel good or morally superior. I’m not doing it to assuage my white guilt. I’m doing it because if you say shit like that on TV you ought to be fired and it’s insane that it somehow debatable.
Pointing out racism where it exists and making people who hold those views feel uncomfortable, while trying to explain why they are wrong?
Yes, this has been a problem for years that plenty of people have addressed again and again. Discussing language, how it’s used, and how it’s hurtful is part of that.
I’d say that’s liberals, not the left. The left has a more comprehensive set of strategies that involves street action, mass media engagement, and pushing for more inclusive democratic practices and dismantling structures that promote racist thinking and actions by people.
Yes, I’m well aware. He also brought warring gangs together across racial lines (when the police could not) and understood the impact of public speaking and mass media (I suspect). Plenty of people are employing similar strategies in helping to bring different groups together.
Please do so! We’d love to hear what has worked in your community.
All I know, is that Fred Hampton wouldn’t have argued that people who use racial slurs should suffer zero consequences in order to not upset “the psychic health of white people”.
Removing Jim Crow laws upset a lot of white people. Leaving an injustice up because it offends people who happen to like that injustice is a self-defeating strategy.
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