Norway has one of the lowest murder rates in the history of the world and the maximum civilian penalty for any crime in that country is 21 years (with extremely rare provisions allowing extensions if a convict is still found to be a danger to society after that time).
The most effective way to reduce mass shootings isn’t to enact harsher punishments for the shooters. The most effective way is to enact policies that make it harder for people to commit mass shootings in the first place.
Vengeance is a pretty piss-poor substitute for prevention.
When you have a weapon, you are more likely to use it. Plain and simple. Hard to bludgeon someone with a morning star if all you have are your fists.
Fists can be deadly, sure, but guns are far more likely to be. And when you have them, and you don’t want to get punched? More likely to pull it. When someone else with a gun sees it? More likely to pull theirs.
I know I’m captain obvious here, but we live in a country where a minority of people who keep claiming guns actually make us safer in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary seem to be the ones who always get their way.
You’re also more likely, no matter how level-headed when at home, to act like an armed person. Threat avoidance goes down.
In 1973 the journalist Ted Simon set out from the UK to travel around the world by motorcycle. He wrote about it in the book Jupiter’s Travels, which I enjoyed very much. Early in, he wrote about his decision whether or not to bring a gun. After mulling it over he realized that carrying a gun increased his chances of getting shot, because he would behave like someone who had a gun. If he behaved like someone who didn’t have a gun, he’d take precautions and avoid situations.
Not saying this to be overly pedantic, but rather to highlight that Kansas City has been represented by the awesome Emmanuel Cleaver since 2005. Prior to that, he was the mayor of KC and a Methodist minister. Kansas City is a fantastic place and one of the few bastions of reason in a sea of stupidity (I grew up drowning in that sea).
You know, I agree with your point that we try juveniles as adults WAY too much in this country. It is a symptom of how we feel like we have to keep the private prisons full. But I do believe sometimes it is acceptable.
I don’t know what, exactly, the proper punishment is for something like this. Ideally we would have a bunch of rehabilitation programs in place, not just the punishment of sitting in prison (but we don’t, for the most part, so…) But I don’t know if the punishments on the books for juveniles is appropriate for this case or not. What do you think an appropriate punishment is, even if tried as juveniles.
it has been shown that how stiff penalties are, up to and including the death penalty, don’t dissuade people from committing crimes. They aren’t thinking too far past the moment.
I dunno, we probably don’t want to fully derail into what an actual just Justice system would look like, only that what we currently have isn’t it.
Most states have very carceral juvenile justice systems. Pretty much the only punishment off the table for a juvenile is the death penalty. Hawaii, with their civil Justice system for all juvenile offenders, is the outlier.
Almost every state routinely sentences children to life in prison. Our juvenile jails are also simply horrific. Often worse than the adult jails.
Teenagers and kids shouldn’t be tried as adults. Full stop. They are not adults. Their brains are not fully developed. No matter what they’ve done, and teenagers and kids are capable of horrific things, they are incapable of the same level of responsibility as most adults.
Our society has failed these particular teenagers by allowing the proliferation of guns. Without guns, they might have had a fight. One might have even died. But the bystanders wouldn’t have been harmed. And right now, without the guns, they would be tried on assault charges and maybe disturbing the peace.
The guns have to go. I don’t know how, but we have to get rid of all the guns.
licensing and insurance coupled with buybacks would be a very good start, along with a public advocacy program to help convince people of the benefits of a gun free society. the sale and manufacture of certain kind of guns – along with ammunition – should be outright prohibited.
people thought it would be impossible to stop people from smoking in the office, then smoking in bars, of keeping kids away from cigarettes. and yet, we’ve had a profound shift
it will take time to see results, but we the sooner we start, the sooner we will see an end to all this pointless violence.
But I do believe sometimes it is acceptable.
