So on campus harassment should just be tolerated? Or dealt with with ones’ own hands?
Obviously the women approached didn’t appreciate this.
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Nice strawman there Mister44. No one said harassment should be tolerated but that’s the game you want to play.
I didn’t see that she was intimidating or that she pressured anyone. The only mention of harassment is by Carla Sinclair. That word does not appear in any of the local reporting or in any of the students stories. But if you want to paint it that way, go right ahead. Just keep in mind that people calling the police on others who have not committed any crimes has on more than one occasion resulted in the death of an innocent person at the hands of police.
I wonder how many people informed this lady they felt harassed? I wonder how many people informed her that her actions intimidated them. My guess is zero. What do you suppose that number might be?
Honestly, if these students aren’t capable of handling a rando mom showing pics of her son and feel so threatened that they feel an armed response is the appropriate one, I question their ability to function in the outside world. But that’s another discussion entirely.
As for the women approached, do you have numbers on that? What percentage had a problem and what percentage didn’t or are you just making the assumption that since the police were called that the mom was an actual problem and have extrapolated how the women felt as a group rather than how the one(s) who called the police felt?
Finally, Towsen is a public University. Parents of children are not barred from campus either. She had every right to solicit a date for her son. Sure, it’s misguided but far from harassment and far from something that requires an armed response.
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I’m sorry I am not using the right word you feel is appropriate. Harassed, unwanted advances, made to feel uncomfortable - how ever one wants to describe it - her actions made women feel something negative to the point they felt the need to report it.
OK, I will. I will also keep in mind that college campuses are rife with rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment. If this was a male student randomly approaching women in this manner, one might be less likely to just shrug off their actions. And while I will say that a middle-aged woman doing this behavior is perhaps less alarming than other scenarios, it is still odd.
So because the person made to feel uncomfortable didn’t confront the other person they weren’t really harassed/made to feel uncomfortable? Or what is your point, exactly?
Yes - one about victim blaming 
Have you ever been engaged by a rando who made you feel weird? The times I have, you do what ever to get them to leave or you leave. The last thing you want to do is engage them and explain to them all the social mistakes they are making that is making you uncomfortable right now.
Do you? I have to assume it is 1 or more, as otherwise no one would know about it. The number, as long as it is at least “1”, is irrelevant. The person(s) approached and made to feel uncomfortable didn’t ask for this. I can’t tell you what went on, and it is entirely possible that the person(s) who reported it were over reacting. But if I am going to assume something, I am going to assume that the person who reported it felt a valid reason to.
Now who is erecting strawmen?
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My mind went here:
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Now, I am straight.
But if this mom was harassing female friends of mine I would approach her and express interest.
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Policework is about keeping the peace and resolving conflicts. Ideally, arresting people should be a small part of what community police does . Telling someone to stop bothering others is right in their ballpark.
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That’s a hell of an assumption, that of the multiple students who felt the need to mention this to the police, not a single one told her it made them uncomfortable.
But even if that’s true, it’s pretty damn victim-blamey of you to criticise those students for not wanting to escalate an interaction with someone who was making them feel unsafe by saying “Stop it, you’re intimidating me!” Because that works so well.
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When mothers attempting to get a date for their son are seen as a threat, one should take a close look at their ability to assess threat. If you want to label it victim blaming then go right ahead. To me this looks like some people overreacted to a harmless person wanting to help her son and decided an armed response was the appropriate one.
I see the mother as the victim here.
And if that person refuses to stop their legally protected search for a person to date their son, what do the police do then? Do they escalate the situation to violence and arrest?
Considering they sent armed officers to respond to a person not committing any crime… not me.
I wouldn’t necessarily be threatened in the sense that I would fear she would directly harm me, I would be wary of some kind of weird-ass scam though.
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When mothers attempting to get a date for their son are seen as a threat, one should take a close look at their ability to assess threat. […] To me this looks like some people overreacted to a harmless person wanting to help her son and decided an armed response was the appropriate one.
“When nice boys just attempting to ask a girl out are seen as a threat, one should take a close look at the ability of young women these days to assess threats!”
You weren’t there, you have never met any of the people involved, and your blithe assumption that this women is harmless and the people who were concerned by her are overreacting is naive at best.
Where does it say that any armed officers were sent? The BB article, at least, just mentions that police issued an advisory.
I’m not American, so I’m ignorant of your laws, but do you really have one which protects a person’s right to waylay strangers and attempt to inveigle them into romantic relationships despite being asked to stop?
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The fact is that this woman has a legally protected right to do what she was doing. Your feelings don’t get to dictate what other people are allowed to do. Your discomfort at having to interact with other people when you are out in public does not negate their rights.
Yes. It is in fact our most sacred right. We call it Freedom of Speech and it is protected by the first amendment to our constitution.
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I am lucky my Japanese mother in law doesn’t speak a word of English and I don’t speak Japanese. We don’t offend each other because we can’t understand what the other is saying.
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Maryland State law regarding harassment:
§ 3-803. Harassment
Prohibited
( A ) A person may not follow another in or about a public place or maliciously engage in a course of conduct that alarms or seriously annoys the other:
(1) with the intent to harass, alarm, or annoy the other;
(2) after receiving a reasonable warning or request to stop by or on behalf of the other; and
(3) without a legal purpose.Exception
( B ) This section does not apply to a peaceable activity intended to express a political view or provide information to others.Penalty
( C ) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to:
(1) for a first offense, imprisonment not exceeding 90 days or a fine not exceeding $500 or both; and
(2) for a second or subsequent offense, imprisonment not exceeding 180 days or a fine not exceeding $1,000 or both.
Now I guess you could try and argue that she falls under the exception of “providing information to others” about how great her son is to date, but I’d be surprised if you could make that fly in a courtroom.
Oh, and you still didn’t cite any source for your claim that “armed officers were sent”.
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He defense is intent. Without an intend to harass, alarm or annoy the other there is no harassment. Her intent seems to be helping her son.
Additionally, she has this defense.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Seems to me the article says police are looking for her. You stated you are not American but surely you are aware of our policing problem where our law enforcement has a habit of killing people for not groveling.
Maryland State law isn’t made by Congress, is it?
Firstly, that assumes you read A-1 and A-2 as and rather than or. Secondly, after you’ve been asked to stop doing something and you keep doing it anyway, most courts will quite reasonably presume an intent to harass.
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The supremacy clause and case law settled that idea long ago. All amendments also apply to state and local law makers.
Because that’s how it works.
Who asked her to stop? When did she continue talking to someone who asked her to stop?
You make assumptions and I’m ok with that. What I have a problem with is someone thinking they can negate a persons right to speak simply because they don’t like it.
Which you know for a fact how, exactly? If all the subsections of (A) are to be considered concurrently, why is 3 specifically noted with an “and” at the beginning?
Which do you think is more likely; that she talked to multiple students who were so concerned that they went to the campus police and not a single one of them asked her to leave them alone, or that one of them did that and she ignored them?
If you’re arguing that the state law is unconstitutional then I’m curious as to how it’s survived since 2010 apparently unchanged. You’d think in nine years someone would have appealed that.
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And we have an even bigger problem with rape, sexual assault, and sexual harassment - especially on campuses. You’re asking people to endure one on the very slim chance the other occurs.
Cops abusing their authority is a real issue in America. Cops killing people unnecessarily is a real issue in America. And while I can agree with people calling the cops unnecessarily shouldn’t be done (i.e. that lady calling on the people BBQing), I can also respect the fact that women should feel safe on campus and not endure getting creeped out by what is a very odd action.
And “armed response” is hyperbole unless they draw their weapon. You want to mince words these people didn’t feel harassed, but feel free exaggerate a hypothetical encounter with “armed response” (as of yet, it doesn’t appear anyone has talked to the woman).
And furthermore - not all speech is protected under the First Amendment. Come on, you know that. If she was in a square with a sign and a megaphone looking for a date, ok, I could see your point. But she is confronting and interacting with other people. When you invade someone elses space it is no longer just free speech, it may become harassment.
Now, odds are, if the cops approached this woman and explained to her this really isn’t the way to go about it, she would agree to stop and every one goes on their way.
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Are you arguing against your previous position? Nevermind. It doesn’t matter. Her defense is intent and that works no matter how you decide to read it.
False choice. There are many other possibilities.
Not at all. Only that she has not violated the law as written and that her speech is protected. I make no assertion as to the validity of that state law. However, I would speculate that if they attempted to charge her under that law and if the state won the case, she would have very solid grounds for appeal.
yet, according to the laws of that state, what she did is not harassment. So, your continuing attempts to paint it as such must have some other motive beyond the facts at hand. Why do you seem to want to curtail the legal activities of a citizen?
No?
My position is as follows:
- those sections are alternatives, so one can be prosecuted for harassment either if there’s provable intent or if one continues after being warned not to
- even if those sections are concurrent it doesn’t matter, because if one continues to harass someone after being asked not to then a defense based on lack of intent is never going to stand up in front of a court
Either some of the people she hassled asked her to leave them alone, or none of them did. That’s a binary choice right there. If any of them did, then what she did is legally harassment. Your argument of “maybe multiple people complained to the police about her independently without any of them ever asking her to stop” is not a credible position to hold.
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