This ain’t 'Nam, Endo. There are rules. Mark it zero.
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I agree . . . this is just too PC; another way to keep us on our toes, keep us guessing about what’s okay to say. Political correctness has just gone too far and Trump is part of that backlash. We don’t want our free speech infringed upon. If the term female is offensive, why isn’t woman also offensive. We could go on all day with words that could possibly be considered offensive to someone in the world. What bullshiit!
Well, you’re off to a good start.
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And what is interesting is that attitudes on this issue are almost the opposite of those in America. Here more gendered terms are preferred progressive version.
For example when Merkel took office commentators noted how there was never any real doubt that she would be known as Frau Bundeskanzlerin, although there is no such thing in the constitution. A few decades ago she would no doubt have been Frau Bundeskanzler which sounds unacceptably backwards today. Similarly a few years earlier some eyes were rolled when the German military no longer limited women to a few tiny niches, but this hidebound traditionalist institution didn’t introduce gendered ranks.
Regarding the original issue, the relationship between English speakers and their compound nouns is a fascinating mess.
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Ouch. Except nouns don’t usually have any requirement for gender. The gender of “bag” and “dress” are the same, no matter who’s wearing or using them, or any other criteria. You have to add on clunky words to specify that kind of info. Maybe it’s a tradeoff? Anyway, it’s nice that spanish conjugation allows for more information in fewer words. it just takes more brainpower for me to keep that info properly indexed. Due to having a native language with some stuff never in common.
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It sounds like you’re looking for definite, eternal rules where there are none? Asking to be called a certain pronoun isn’t much different than asking for a certain name: there are definitely ridiculous examples of both pronouns and names, but giving a little more leeway rather than insisting there’s only right and wrong ones should open the door to befriending more interesting people.
I guess I have my own question. I know a decent number of trans people, but I have never met anyone who insists on a neo pronoun in real life – though sometimes one is included in a list of other possible pronouns. I wish I knew more people who insisted on xe/hir or whatever, since I think it’s helpful to know if they specifically ID as nonbinary or not. I know more people on the internet who prefer neo pronouns, and am not sure if people feel less inclined to ID this way in person due to social pressure, or my sample is off (could easily be skewed to somewhat older and a lot more binary because of context). FWIW if someone gives multiple possible pronouns I try to use the “queerest” since I suspect that’s the one they actually prefer, and others are more likely social compromises.
Er, specifically my question is: do others know a lot of people who insist on neopronouns but don’t accept any others? I suspect most of the people who complain about the concept of these pronouns haven’t really met a ton of people who use them?
In that case I wasn’t referring to gender. English clearly has compound nouns, but people are remarkably uncomfortable around non-lexicalized ones. “Woman teacher” may sound odd, but the explanation that unlike “female” “woman” is not an adjective is unsatisfying because neither is “history” in “history teacher” (although I know that some school grammars pretend that it is.)
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So you feel strongly about being rude to people and insulting them?
Is that like hazing in fraternities/sororities? It was done to me, so now I get to do it to the next batch.
There are better ways to be powerful and respected and valued than metaphorically pushing people off the pavement into the gutter so that you can have the whole sidewalk for yourself.
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I hear right-wing pundits say stuff like this all the time, but then they throw a hissy fit whenever they hear someone use a perfectly innocuous phrase like “Happy Holidays!”
So I guess it’s A-OK to voice a preference for which language is most appropriate for a given situation as long as it’s to advocate the terms you like instead of the terms other people like?
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Well there’s Political Correctness which is the bane of all liberty-loving conservatives, then there’s Patriotic Correctness, which is special and different since it defends the Job Creators from Statists and their Death Taxes to be handed over to Welfare Queens and other Takers. See also “thug,” “freedom fries,” “intelligent design,” “cultural Marxism,” “race realist,” et al.
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When I go parties, I always take along my trusty emissary Jeeves. That way I can sip my sherry cobbler uninterrupted, catching up on the latest gossip, fountain pen in hand while my messages are edited and ferried to and from worthy interlocutors through Reginald’s encyclopedic knowledge of the very latest etiquette! /s
As an author, this has long ranked among my top five or six Asimov stories…
“Freedom” fries my posterior! They go right to my love handles and refuse to leave. They should be called colonialist fries.
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As for trans people, the only one I’ve ever met IRL, I used to call “Steve” (not her name) and now I call “Tracey” (also not her name). This shit ain’t difficult. And if like me your brain only works properly sometimes, you can even get away with simply being polite and open to being corrected. Easy as.
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Right—most people can parse the difference between “someone using a word because they either didn’t know it was offensive or just forgot” and “someone using an offensive word out of sheer stubborn insensitivity.”
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The way I see it, there’s a certain sort of individual who will refuse to avoid addressing people with terms offensive to the addressees because of some trenchant need to adhere to some static linguistic ideal to which they subscribe. The ancient and technical term for this is being rude.
Then there’s others who seem terrified that we’re on some slippery slope to a tongue-tied world of verbal mine-fields. I’ll just say that I find the path from woman as an adjective to everyone demanding to be called Emperor Norton an unlikely consequence.
Perhaps turn it around? No one dictates what you’re allowed to say. That’s what living in the land of freeze peach is all about. Heck, if you filter nothing, the Republicans might even nominate you for president!
But each person has to decide how they’ll communicate with others. Most people aren’t going to call you Lord Almighty, but they can if they really want to.
I always find it a bit odd how, in the English-speaking world anyway, conversations about the courteous use of language are regularly approached as though we’re establishing cast-iron commandments enforced by Thought Police.
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True story from about thirteen (fourteen?) years ago:
I come into work one day. Retail establishment. I’m working maintenance. Bump into department supervisor Jake. Also working in this department is Samantha, whose male gender identity is no secret because ‘Sam’ told us he was male. This particular day, he was scheduled to come in around noon. Our conversation:
Jake: Morning, sir.
Me: Morning.
Jake: Okay, so Sam is now Luke.
Me: 'Bout damn time.
Rest of the staff was onboard within a day and just as nonchalant about it. It’s really that easy, folks.
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You don’t live near Berkeley, do you?’
I’ve seen people literally screamed at for daring to use an incorrect pronoun…
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I’ve visited the Bay Area dozens of times over the years on both business and social calls, but I admit that, along with the cost of living there, the giant cloud of smug choking the what is otherwise a wonderfully diverse part of the country has kept me from ever considering relocating there. The profusion of tight-wound pretentious twits does not surprise me.
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Of course, one of my friends is a 40 year plus Bay Area veteran (fled New England for grad school) and trans, and he says “Call me whatever you want as long as it isn’t late for dinner.”
Standards vary, even here. That said, there are a lot of tightly wound people here ready to take offense for the sake of other folks (not even themselves) when it comes to the behavior of people who are not themselves.
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Some people are born hall monitors 
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