Vladimir Putin takes the gloves off

[PrestonSturges]

Vlad is a sad little Paris Hilton attention whore. That routine has an expiration date.

[waetherman]

You know what brings the price of oil back and Russia’s economy back with it? War. Global, destabilizing war, especially in the Middle East. Just sayin’.

[Mister_Eppy]

Paging @PrestonSturges…

[halloween_jack_]

@petr

World War II (in terms of casualties) was primarily a fight between Russia and Germany.

This is basically the Russian National Myth, whereby everything that Stalin did to his country is justified and his countrymen still bear a huge grudge against America (conveniently forgetting the billions of dollars of equipment received through Lend-Lease, among other things). Why Russian casualties were so high is a matter worth examining, and not exactly favorable to the myth.

@JeremiahC

Nothing Russia has done in half-a-hundred years has been fractionally as horrible.

Interesting that you cut it off at that point.

[crenquis]

I suspect that BUGGER is be behind all of this.

[Thebarton_Gamer]

Are we talking about this Orlov? o_O

[PhasmaFelis]

@Boundegar

Yea, he had me right up to that point.

He lost me a bit earlier. “A conservative approach to introducing innovations into the social order” is generally code for “Look, I’m not saying that women/blacks/gays can never have equal rights, but we all need to think long and hard if we’re ready for such a dramatic step. Long and hard. We’ll bring it up again in 20 years or so. Until then, get back in the goddamn kitchen.”

[PhasmaFelis]

@JeremiahC

Russia won WWII. Period.

Even if that’s true (and I rather doubt that Germany could ever have invaded and pacified America quickly enough to prevent the juggernaut of continent-spanning full-war-footing production from spooling up and crushing them, even if they took all of Europe first), Russia wasn’t acting as “savior” to anyone. They were defending their home territory, because they had to. The only major power that can make even the dodgiest claim to altruistic motives in WW2 is–surprise!–the USA.

[PhasmaFelis]

@jerwin

You need to stop applying non-Russian norms to Russia. Now, please.

Did you mean to put a smiley there, maybe?

[popobawa4u]

@jerwin

Do you believe that these three goals are broadly shared by the populace of this country, acting as individuals, but are not shared by those who control the political direction of this country? Do you believe that policies that reflect the interests of elite groups over the interests of the broader populace are somehow illegitimate? If so, congratulations. You’ve just made a political critique rooted in democracy.[/quote]

Don’t be presumptuous. Firstly, democracy is not specifically western. It can be easily traced back to Athens, which is not far west of Moscow. Nor is its relevance that of an ideal - it can be seen principally as a method. The problem with these “elites” is that elitism does not refer to a general class of person, one can only be elite within a specific domain of activity. The idea that ones competence makes them a special kind of person compared to others is pure egotism, an animalistic trait born of instinct rather than reason. And thus implying a person with little essential self-control. A person who cannot control their own instincts, their own personality, is not in any position to control others. They are the worst choice, unless you prefer an immature, pre-scientific society.

[quote=“jerwin, post:41, topic:44502”]What Orlov is saying, what Putin seems to be saying is that Democracy is not the basis for legitimate government. The consent of the governed doesn’t matter. The antidemocratic behavior of the United States is only important if it is hypocritical. If the United States were to adopt the manner of an oligarchy, and justify itself publicly using appeals to oligarchic ideals, it would be more legitimate and more admirable in the eyes of Russia, not less.

The US government is hypocritical. As is that of Russia. The Russian government, not unlike that of the USSR before it, does make an effort to put forth a more PR-friendly to the world at large. With the rhetoric that it is a fair country, with meaningful elections, security and prosperity for its people. Believe it or not, Russia does not directly publicize itself as an oligarchy, perhaps because they imagine that it would be bad for business. But at least they are no longer so hypocritical as to claim to represent a Soviet for and by The People.

[Tropicalweasel]

Thank you. The conservative pro technology capitalists who dominate boingboing get scared when the truth (that the entire PLANET hates our government and our military’s global terrorism) is voiced by world leaders. Wake up to the propoganda and false information TV is feeding you. The powers who have control of this country murder innocent people with remote controlled airplanes, torture suicidal innocent hostages at Guantanamo, steal from poor workers to give money to rich criminals, and pollute the planet without remorse. Silence is complicity. STAY WOKE.

[PhasmaFelis]

@Tropicalweasel

Thank you. The conservative pro technology capitalists who dominate boingboing get scared when the truth (that the entire PLANET hates our government and our military’s global terrorism) is voiced by world leaders.

…Are we talking about the same BoingBoing? I mean, I’ll give you “pro-technology” and maybe even “capitalist,” but everything else you said is the opposite of true.

[jerwin]

I never smile.

It would give too many of my acquaintances the chance to narrate

a thin smile crept across his lips

and I’m afraid that sort of description makes me seem inhuman. Now, I shall give you a few minutes head start before I release the hounds.

[popobawa4u]

If I had to characterize the political climate of bOINGbOING (proud reader since 1990!) I’d say it seems libertarian left. So, for culture and tech websites, this is definitely not what most would call “conservative”. But I do agree that over the years, popular leftism has generally tried to be more business friendly and middle of the road than I think prudent.

[SqualusAcanthias]

He probably meant “savior of the world” in the same sense the U.S. are the “savior of the world”, i.e. fucking up other countries around the globe to spread ideology and take their natural resources.

[jerwin]

@popobawa4u

Don’t be presumptuous. Firstly, democracy is not specifically western. It can be easily traced back to Athens, which is not far west of Moscow.

So… you’re a geographical determinist?

[SqualusAcanthias]

Overall, this sounds pretty reasonable.

[PhasmaFelis]

@SqualusAcanthias

He probably meant “savior of the world” in the same sense the U.S. are the “savior of the world”, i.e. fucking up other countries around the globe to spread ideology and take their natural resources.

He specifically called it out as something that Russia used to do but is tired of now, though.

[popobawa4u]

@jerwin

So… you’re a geographical determinist?

No, not as such. I said it can be traced to Athens, not that it should. It was a small example of how “democracy” need not be seen as a western ideal. Consider also that the government which claims to be most interested in democracy - arguably the US - spends huge amounts of time, effort, and money to undermine democratic process, both in the US and abroad. I find that most modern human activity tends to be, for better or worse, abstracted from geography.

[jerwin]

@popobawa4u

I said it can be traced to Athens, not that it should.

And then you added

which is not far west of Moscow.

Given that the idea of the West in Russian sources is a cultural one, the geographic proximity of Athens to Moscow should not matter in the slightest.