If US houses are similar to New Zealand houses you are correct. I’ve never been as cold indoors as I am here. And it’s nowhere near at cold outside in winter. I’m very happy I don’t directly pay the heating bills.
I get it. I really do. You consider yourself an expert and are unused to people questioning your declarative statements. When someone attempts to unpack a statement like “we are 20-30yrs behind” and challenges you by asking what metric or justification are you using make such a claim by presenting actual facts and numbers, it’s much easier to be insulting and indignant. When your responses are challenged with raw numbers and factual data, you begin a game of goalpost moving by saying these things are not alike while ignoring the fact that the purpose of those numbers is not to make a declaration of truth but to illustrate how your statement seems wrong upon its face. It seems to me that we are only behind on the implementation of the technology and not on the technology itself to which I say it seems that this is likely a market force and not a function of ability. But you move the goalpost again. You are correct that you have no obligation to educate me, but begging complexity as a reason to not back up your statements is lazy and disingenuous. Just as you have no obligation to educate anyone, I have no obligation to take your declarative statements at face value when you provide no evidence to back them up.
Additionally, when you claim we are behind, you are making the presupposition that the direction of the industry will and must be towards modular homes. Your only supporting argument that this is the case was to declare modular homes to be higher quality which I also questioned and to which you have failed to respond with anything compelling other than your “I’m an expert and I know more than you” argument.
As to your advice, I’ve not claimed authority but rather I have questioned yours. I’ve made no attempt to speak as an authority but rather have been questioning someone who says they are. If being challenged bothers you, perhaps you could respond with facts rather than unsupported declarative statements.
Its interesting that you raise NZ - has a lot in common because of their timber resources, and wood house building tradition. NZ is having a similar revolution with off site building. My partner has gone to the NZ PreFab conference and presented on techniques used in Sweden.
I too would like to see some concrete examples. Coming from someone who has designed new single family and multifamily housing in the US. I have done a couple of pre-fab wall panel buildings but many more traditionally built.
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Good, we agree. But when we both walk away you will be wrong and I’ll be right.
I did not in fact make that assertion - that the direction of the industry is towards Modular Homes. I assert that the direction of the industry is towards off site building. Again, you are just being sloppy with terms you are not fluent in. How can I make you aware of your incompetence here without you taking it as a personal attack?
In general your questioning of my declarative statements have been misinformed, and unproductively aggressive. Instead of asking for more information or asking me for more to read about it, you accuse me of lying, of not backing up my claims, and you treat me like a hostile witness in a trial.
Yes I am making declarative statements. Some are purely my opinion. I don’t have to back them up. I don’t have to attempt to present years of research on a message board. I don’t have to educate you. You’ve been rude and presumptuous, and acted the victim. You don’t have to believe me, you don’t have to respect me, and I don’t care if you do or not.
Are we through then?
I see what’s important to you. You be right buddy. You be right and keep refusing to show that you are. After all, you have no obligation to back up your claims right?
The way I see it when you say we are behind 20-30 years we would have to be behind in something. So is it the tech, the adoption, the what? You see, your meaningless declarative statement is wonderful in that no matter how it’s countered you can continue moving the goalpost by stating that wasn’t what you are talking about without ever bothering to explain what you are talking about by insisting you have no obligation to educate… and you say I use sleazy argumentative techniques. Pot meet kettle.
Considering the hostility you express when someone dares question you, that’s not unreasonable.
That’s always been up to you Skippy.
You keep replying.
Sweden began developing their current techniques over 50 years ago. 20-30 years ago they were where we are now with adopting these techniques.
The practice of building houses in factories in components began before WW2 in Sweden. After WW2 Sweden was shipping component houses to the UK and to Germany to assist with rebuilding. Germany made close study of what they were seeing and began to copy the Swedes. The system of factory building was continuously refined and in the 1970s energy crisis a deep effort in refining building details for energy efficiency was undertaken. Industry, academia, and government all partook in this - research, execution, and refinement of codes to enable progress on all fronts. During the 80s you could observe a diverse range of wall assemblies which was vetted down to what we see today by the mid 90s. As the solution for energy efficiency/construction efficiency was honed in on the manufacturing could also become more focused, and the industrial approach was refined and efficiencies increased.
So when I say we are 20-30 years behind I am being optimistic. We do not have the cooperation between industry, academia, and government that Sweden had. We don’t have the motivation to improve our building that Sweden had. Our incentives are limited to profit, which means there will be a much narrower criteria for implementing these techniques. This is why you see American manufacturers buying into technology, but not building high value assemblies that enjoy efficiencies that come with manufacturing. Instead we have some firms buying into the technology, with the hope that they can discover new profit, but these folks are likely just in it for the IPO and will move on. We are behind most greatly in the commitment to build better, to build better shelter for ourselves. Without that we will most certainly always be behind.
Cool, they need it. Housing here is shocking compared to what I’m used to from home. I suspect it may have to do with a lack of minimum energy efficiency standards. Which means regular people pay for way too much electricity.
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