But… but why…? He’s now got a cleaver that’s -still- got pits in it.
I may watch too much AvE or This Old Tony, but why not skim the surface clean in a mill (though there are profile issues and possible problems with taking so much material off), or wire-wheel the fuck out of the corrosion and weld-fill the gaps clean, before grinding back to a smooth surface?
dissatisfied noises
Thanks! 
1 Like
Not really, I watched it and thought how apt that he should be using butchery on a butcher’s cleaver.
1 Like
Gotta start somewhere. I see no reason to throw shade at someone that is trying.
1 Like
From what I’ve seen with restoring old sharp things theres a point where your just not getting the pitting out. I don’t think he’s gone so far as too remove too much material. But where there’s deep pitting there is a point where you’ve removed too much material. Any welding, or even too much grinding introduces heat. Which can alter the heat treat (he may have already done this) by either work hardening or anealing the steel requiring you to redo the heat treat. Which requires special equipment. Anything you fill with, even other metal. Isn’t neccisarily going to be perfectly bonded. And because you might eventually be grinding into it at the cutting edge. You need as flat, even, And consistent a piece of actual blade steel is possible for most of the blade. So any sort of filling may lead to chipping at the cutting edge or Fuck up your ability to put a sharp edge on there.
I’m not saying this guy did it exactly right or even that the blade in question was worth saving. But what you’re describing doesn’t really line up with what I’ve seen with restoring knives and other blades.
Typical approach is to remove all superficial rust. And then grind out as much damage and pitting as can be removed without compromising the blade or it’s function. You keep pitting as far away from the cutting edge as you can. Since if you grind into it as you sharpen it leads to chipping (just like a patch/fill). At some point you have to leave some pitting. So after that it’s just about stabilizing things to keep that pitting from generating rust.
In what I’ve read about restoring razors some people blue the blade after restoration to minimize rust in the pitting.
2 Likes
Pro-tip: You can watch this at double speed (2x) and not miss much.
I’m also of the “smear it with naval jelly, clean it with a wire brush, and then see what you can do with the edge” school of thought, rather than removing so much metal all over to make it oh so shiny right off the bat.
I also think it’s acceptable to be critical of the technique used in the video because it’s being held up and presented as exemplary, and it’s really not. It’s mostly a guy in front of a camera taking a stab at something he doesn’t have a ton of experience with. Which is fine, but doesn’t make it immune to criticism (“throwing shade”), especially with the self-laudatory attitude he presents while describing his own videos. (“I thought this was an impossible job, and nearly gave up several times, but LOOK how well I succeeded in the end!”)
Show-offs get clicks though, I guess.
1 Like
1 Like
Not a restoration, not a butcher’s knife, and not even a decent cleaver. Who wants a through tang cleaver?
With old chisels I just try to find a line that doesn’t intersect any pits, no further back than necessary, and put the end of the edge bevel there.
3 Likes
Cleavers are wonderful to slice veggies with. I have fairly big hands, and having that much metal to rub against my left knuckles makes chopping rapidly easy peasy. With smaller knives, I have to curl my left hand tighter, which is more fatigue. I might have polished the left side more than the right, so that all those peaks don’t abrade my left knuckles.
I also would have left all those wonderful planishments on that old metal and polished it as-is. Those divots would hold air and keep the veggies falling off instead of sticking to the blade, like a typical santoku with the blade divots.
3 Likes
Western cleavers? Or the Chinese cleavers (which aren’t cleavers)?
A proper western cleaver has a really thick heavy blade. Kind of smashes the veggie even when sharp and it’s gonna tire your hand out quick. I use mine if really tough stuff like squash, melons, And big honkin’ turnips. It can be fun to assault carrots with one like the Swedish Chef. But I wouldn’t call it “wonderful” for chopping most veg.
If you aren’t talking Chinese cleavers I’d recommend giving one a try.
I don’t really buy that kullenschliff actually work for that. Every knife I’ve tried with them they certainly don’t. They aren’t typical of santoku, so much as typical of western hybrid knives with a santoku shape at a certain price point. And the few places I’ve heard they actually have a benefit is reducing drag and weight on very large knives like long slicers.
And those aren’t planishments. They’re rust pitting. While they may have acted similarly to kullenschliff. The big thing they do is harbor and promote rust. Best practice seems to be to remove or fill them. If you cant, or doing so practically destroys the object. You want to coat them or watch them very carefully and keep them oiled and rust free.
So, you’re telling me that it was a flat piece of metal before, but all the ripples on the surface are due to rust?
I think the pits are pits. Holes. You can see some of them left after he polished it, 0.5 to 2mm, cylindrical holes. But the divots are divots… those were there to begin with, even when it was shiny and new.
That’s definitely pitting.
That sort of embellishment is atypical for commercially produced western, And particularly American knives. And knives of this age even more so. More over decorative hammer marks are far more even in shape and size and tend to be arrange in more consistent geometric patterns. They’re also shallow, smooth, And kept away from the cutting edge. Or parts of the blade that may become the cutting edge as the blade looses depth to sharpening.
See? Shallow, smooth. All the same size. Away from the cutting edge.
Another tell is when you see the tang. You wouldn’t ornament the tang that way. It would weaken it. Make fitting a handle tough an promote rust. And if the tang fails the knife is boned.
Could have saved a lot of time just banging it against a rock to make all the rust fall off to reveal the shiney sharp blade within. Worked great for Conan the Barbarian. But maybe you need super strength to do that?
3 Likes
Haha, and ouch.
1 Like
I didn’t notice. Still…err…something-something-something…
Best way to remove rust-
Reverse electroplating.
Only removes rust- and nothing else at all.
Leaves surface bare shiny metal- whatever original parent metal is there, it stays and rust is gone to sacrificial annode (or cathode, can’t remember which is which here).
Next best, and easiest- Naval jelly. Only attacks rust, but messy and can’t get in fine details like reverse electroplating can.
Third easiest- Metal Rescue solution. Ive used it, it works, but can discolor base metal if left in too long. Not really messy, rinse clean with water.
Abrasives just attack everything, and remove actual metal.
1 Like
real butcher knows WAY more about this shit than home cook. A turkey or leg of lamb is about max use for mine. but it is a $15 one I bought at the asian grocery because I wanted a meat axe.
I don’t know much about butcher knives (having it heavy makes sense, though), but rusty metal actually takes on weight (from oxygen), and surface rust actually puffs out a bit from the affected surfaces. Grinding away ALL observed rust could risk reducing a blade’s weight substantially, but if discrete, small, pitted areas are left alone, careful grinding would remove substantial remaining amounts of rust without removing too much good metal. I’ve actually seen carbon steel process piping (incredibly rusty and looking as if they were pulled from the Titanic) cleaned up with virtually no change to their nominal wall thicknesses.
I’ve never heard it called that before, but that’s how I de-rusted my mower deck. Sank it in a stock tank full of washing soda and water, dropped a big hunk of old heating oil tank in next to it, and ran 40 VDC through for weeks. I had to keep taking out the anode and belt sanding it in order to keep the action going, but it worked reasonably well.
The rule of thumb Pedro the Cruel taught me is that rust is five times the volume of the iron it came from.
1 Like
