Aaaaaaaaaah!!! I get you. Man that was a complete disconnect. I could only read it from the point of view of a specifier, not a purchaser.
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Ah, good! Glad I was able to clarify. 
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Iâd say case in point, but thatâs really points in a case.
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My response was more broadly to the whole idea of judging a person based on their own time and place, and how accurately we can do so. I donât find any fault in your major claim, but I find the idea is problematic in many of the same ways that cultural relativism is. Call it temporal relativism. Certainly attempting to judge people and behaviors based on the standards of their time/place/culture is an important mindset, especially as a tool against ethnocentrism, or in this case, tempocentrism. However, it suffers from two drawbacks, 1) The âstandardsâ of a time or place reflect only the public face, and most often a curated public face of what those standards are, leaving out what may well be a silent majority, or even a loud and important minority voice at the time, that doesnât make the cut of history or memory in the same was that popular culture does. 2) We humans arenât very good at weighing the âacceptabilityâ or appropriateness of the things we say and do in our own time and culture, much less in other times and places. These interactions are complex and âacceptableâ and appropriate can be pretty fluid concepts. In any case, I donât think we disagree as much is it might seem, I was just taking the conversation in a different directionâŚ
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Just a fun anecdote. When my mother got a credit card she was asked by the bank for my fatherâs signature. She immediately closed her accounts with the bank and went to another bank. This was before I was born, but as a teenager I basically understood that I was never to do business with that bank. Basically my family has a blood feud with the bank that will carry on for generations. In Canada, where there are basically five banks, thatâs a pretty big deal.
This is an important perspective (history is written by the victors). It fits in with how we mythologize individuals - a great individual who âchanged the worldâ is the result of the workings of a subculture that had been there for a while but that doesnât really get mentioned in our history books under the great individual arose from it. That is, they just happened to be the thinker who was positioned at the right time to have the idea that was already there break through.
But generally I donât think that there is a âsilent majority.â Perhaps if you want to know general cultural attitudes towards sexism in 1960 youâd be better off looking at media from 1965 to account for some kind of lag, but the products of culture do generally reflect the culture they come from, and things that were very popular must be things that donât rock the boat too much.
One way people are trying to change this is by fighting back against the idea that it is womenâs responsibility to keep themselves safe from men who are predators and place the blame squarely on the men who behave unacceptably. We do this, for example, by pointing out to someone who says that women shouldnât accept drinks from strangers at bars that what they are saying sounds like victim blaming.
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Good for your mom, and I support your blood feud!
Not just the media, but the ads from a specific time, give a pretty clear picture of how people in that culture were being targeted. Hereâs a link to a few gender-targeted ads from the 60s. (Notice the âOld Maidâ stewardess ad. If you go view the video for the âAirline foodâs better daysâ thread, youâll hear a different story.)
http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/gender-ads-1960s
Important to call attention to the word âpeopleâ there. It isnât only women that need to speak out against misogyny. We need men to do it as well. Hereâs one who did so eloquently.
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Ideally yes, but IRL people are (surprised), so no use arguing about what people should or shouldnât do IMO.
I mean, if you tell me, âDonât be surprisedâ Iâll respond: âWell its too late for that!, I was surprised, in fact, the surprise is over!, what do we talk about now?â
Moving on from that, the fascinating thing for me is why weâre surprised, and certainly the popular conception of Mr Feynman is relevant to this point.
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If you read SF from the 1960s-- early early Frank Herbert, Cyril Kornbluth, etc, you might be able to detect a rather patronizing attitude towards women.
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I do (one of my favorite authors is PK Dick), and there is. I said ânot justâ.
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I like âcomma fuckerâ much more than âgrammar naziâ, itâs an insult that gets the same point across without feeling like itâs kind of making light of all the atrocities the nazis committed.
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Thereâs more than one hidden assumption in your argument/proposal:
The blanket approach of refusing drinks because of a non zero chance of risk assumes that the danger is borne out of the actions of the victim.
You would be clear of victim blaming if you suggested that men should not offer drinks to women at bars, but then youâd be insane.
Either of these suggestions ignore that the problem lies in psychos abusing social conventions, not that they are born out of them; if women stop accepting drinks at bars, psychoâs donât cease to exist and men donât turn dangerous because women accept drinks.
Some women refusing any drinks will limit their risk, and they can do so if they believe it is in their best interests, but so will refusing to go out in the first place. And thatâs safer isnât it?
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The only thing that stops a bad guy with a drink is a good guy with a drink.
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Someone offering me a drink was always viewed as an ice breaker, as âoh, you exist and youâre interested in me?â and nothing else. I would probably throw the value of the drink on the table if someone though they were entitled to anything. Guys are taught to offer drinks but girls are taught that refusing the attention is rude. It takes time to learn to say no to unwanted advances is an option. Frankly, the whole thing sounds a little weird to me and I would probably buy the guy a drink back as a thanks for the attention. Thereâs this whole subtext of âletâs get this person drunk to make rejection more difficultâ into buying someone a drink that is a little creepy anyway.
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I developed epilepsy from a car accident in my mid-twenties, and that means no alcohol. This sounds bad, but itâs true: I noticed right away that my drinking a coke in a bar resulted in fewer people trying to buy me drinks.
Sure, you can get a coke refilled, but they didnât even ask.
When I switched to cranberry and tonic with a lime twist (no vodka or rum) suddenly guys wanted to buy me drinks again.
EDIT: I should note that as a caffeine addict, I donât go for the mixed-drink look. I tried it because I noticed the issue, and was curious about what the response would be. Having satisfied my curiosity, I switched back to the heavenly nectar that is bubbly soda.
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It is creepy. Personally I think that if youâre hoping to meet someone at a bar youâre already doing it wrong. Us guys are mostly taught to just âbe a manâ and be direct but thatâs not any easier for us, especially if youâre trying not to be a pushy jerk. The buying a drink thing is kind of a socially acceptable middle ground that arose because itâs the least painful way to approach someone at a bar for both sides.
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Iâve been married with an anti-social geek for almost 8 years now but my son is 15 years old, so I have been teaching him what works in flirting without being creepy. My experience tells me that itâs all in the eyes. If youâre in an environment that is loud and crowded just look right into that personâs eyes and see if they look back and how they react. If they keep looking back and smile do approach but after introductions strike a conversation about things that are fun to talk about, music, movies, tv series that you really like and she seems to like too. Nothing feels better than discovering that hot person that likes the weird pink tequila drink is into Doctor Who too 
In the end of the day, attractive people are people too and almost never see themselves as you see them.
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Unfortunately ânot being creepyâ is something that, for many, has to be acquired through practice and canât really be taught.
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Iâve been told that my lazy eye is creepyâŚ
Well, the kid is 15. I hope that at 25 heâll be making his own decisions. But as a mother to a guy I think I can strive to teach him to avoid being creepy. That he doesnât have to be ashamed of being chubby, goofy or awkward or making mistakes (heâs only 15!) but he has to own them and learn from them.
I canât live his life for him but I can offer perspective and insight. I know he wonât listen to everything (câmon, teenager!) but if something sticks Iâm happy.
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That is excellent! I suspect that since many parents are petrified about talking openly to their kids about sex, they probably donât discuss proper romantic behaviour either since itâs closely related. Kids learn how to relate to friends, peers, authority figures all the time but not as much how to act when you are in love and sexually attracted to someone (which, letâs face it, can be an extremely fucked up and confusing state of mind). Just like with sex, theyâre stuck turning to pop culture and their buddies to figure out how to navigate, which, just like with sex, causes a lot of bad information can be spread.
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