I think 3 of the last 5 presidents were draft dodgers? And nobody who served in Vietnam was elected despite multiple primary candidates and John McCain, John Kerry, and Al Gore who all lost general elections, two of them to (the same) draft dodger? So yeah: if you want to be elected president dodging the draft is the smart move.
History suggests that the wealthy, while they will avoid it if they can, are nevertheless perfectly willing to sacrifice their children in order to preserve their status and power.
What happened to those who actively resisted participation in war (not just dodged, resisted) during Vietnam:
And some related WWII history:
Speaking as a guy who registered during the Vietnam War (but was neither drafted nor deferred), college deferment was not draft dodging. Phony ailments (like cofefe’s bone spurs, which are real and troublesome but he obviously never had them) were dodging, and enrolling in a new college every time you need one (like Dick Cheney) was borderline. The real issue is that when you do that, you kind of don’t have standing to both be a hawk and to criticize the service of others (as Cheney did to Kerry).
For a few years I lived on the West Coast of Vancouver Island, and there were many people there who had come to Canada either to avoid the draft or after having deserted. One guy had done 3 tours in Vietnam then walked away and somehow ended up in Canada with no intention of going home (this was 25 years later). There were also a few former South Vietnamese soldiers (i.e. officers) who somehow ended up there as well, also seeking to keep a low profile.
When I was 18 I had every intention of a military career, but the Canadian forces at the time were not actively recruiting and I ended up changing my perspective fairly quickly (Rwanda/Sarajevo/Somalia fiascos all playing a role). I know now that had I enlisted it would probably have broken me.
To hell with war and those who perpetrate it on the soldiers and civilians in the way. Nevermind the children of leaders. Does anyone really doubt that Trump would casually send at least 3 of his kids to war without a thought, given that they are just extensions of his ego anyway?
Let’s go back to St. Crispin’s day warmaking, when the soldiers follow the king up the hill. Put Trump (or GWB, or Obama, or Clinton, GHWB, Reagan etc) on a landing craft and he would likely find reasons not to send the troops up the beach.
George Carlin and Johnny Cash avoided the draft the old old fashioned way, enlisting in the Air Force. The only service where enlisted people are generally far from where potential deadly hazards are and officer generally take the most risks.
My dad got out before everyone was being transferred to Nam. A friend from college said her dad got out by two factors a friend at the post office who told him they would hold his notice there for 3 days so it gave him time to go enlist in the navy.
Navy was a bit more dangerous given the “Brown Water Forces” at the time. But sea duty was pretty safe. It wasn’t like the Vietcong were going to sink a carrier or even a destroyer.
My father finished Army ROTC during the Kennedy Administration. So he was in early enough to have some degree of choice of assignments. He “flew a desk” for several decades away from dangerous duty. My mother threatened to divorce him on the spot if he took a combat assignment.
It wasn’t until the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC was erected years later that he made peace with his choices (which he always blamed for the lack of promotion). He would point out his ROTC classmates to me who didn’t make it back. “I went to school with that guy, that guy, that guy…”
Obama was too young for the draft. He was 13 when it ended.
I think he meant Trump, Clinton, and W. I would only call one of those three a dodger.
Clinton didn’t dodge it per se as much as take advantage of student deferment. “W” joined the Texas Air Guard as a way to make overseas service unlikely. They were calling up National guard units, but it was not common. (half a dodger)
Trump had the “bone spurs” diagnosis and definitely was an unambiguous dodger.
Yes, I think Clinton (who in addition got into good schools on merit) was in no way a dodger. W got into the national guard with a pretty bad record (poor scores, drunk driving) thanks to political intercession, but his claim that neither he nor his father knew of the intercession is credible, so he gets a (weak) pass.
If you really have bone spurs then you can’t do things like walk long distances, so it is a legitimate reason for 4-F classification, but it is now known that Trump’s diagnosis was made by a tenant of Trump’s father as a favor to his landlord, and that Trump was using his feet freely before, during, and after the diagnosis, so definitely a dodger.
But, again, history suggests that this will only work if you make them do the actual fighting. Just selling off some officer’s commissions to the aristocracy won’t cut it.
Yeah, I was counting clinton, bush jr and trump. I don’t actually consider draft dodging pejorative per se. so I was perhaps being a bit loose, but as I understand Clinton also got special treatment to delay the draft beyond the regular educational deferment. Like I said, I don’t consider draft dodging bad by itself, it is only when coupled with militaristic rhetoric while attacking the service of others that bush and trump’s campaigns were known for. And in that respect I don’t really care if you got a “fair” educational deferment or a fake bone-spur diagnosis. If bill clinton had acted holier-than-thou about being pro-military and made fun of GHWB for being shot down, I would consider that just as bad.
But my more general point is that despite the national hard-on we have for the military, when it comes to the commander in chief US voters have been surprisingly consistent in rejecting candidates who served overseas, even in favor of those who went to great lengths to avoid active service.
Note that Eugene Debs got ten years for speaking out against WWI. Though, actually refusing war got you twenty to thirty years. I suddenly can’t remember who and his brother got that time.
Much of the IWW leadership did time, though they had passed a resolution to tone it down. Emma Goldman did time, and then was deported.
I would point out that many against WWI were not pacifists, more anti-capatalists.
The good thing is that I think everyone was released early once WWI ended, though I can’t remember tye specific process.
WWI was brutal, for those serving and those who refused, which changed things a lot. Not just the Oxford Pledge, but pacifist grouos formed, like the War Resister’s League. A committee to defend the rights of war resisters morphed and became permanent, the ACLU. The peace churches members of which were the only ones allowed. CO status, campaigned so it was easier to be a CO in WWII, the CO camps and the longest prison term I’ve seen was three years.
Obviously things were much easier in tbe Vietnam war era, though anyone outright refusing did about two years, not great but way better than 20 or 30 years.
But, but, … Gulf of Tonkin incident.
Fail to register now and nothing happens, right? No. try to get financial aid for school and see what happens. Wait, but that was years ago and now I’m not eligible (too old) to OR required to register. Too bad. So sad. You’re screwed. DO not pass go. Do not collect student aid.
